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The other HMS VICTORYs of England's seafaring history

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  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
The other HMS VICTORYs of England's seafaring history
Posted by crackers on Wednesday, August 22, 2018 12:47 AM

Most people think the only HMS Victory is the 1765 warship noted for her participation in the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805 under the command of Lord Nelson, and his mortal wound on the quarter deck from a sniper on the French REDOUBTABLE. However, there have been other ships of the English Royal Navy, the first being a merchant ship, built in 1560 and broken up in 1608. The second Victory, launched in 1571, under the command of John Hawkins took part in the defeat of the Spanish Armada in action at Gravelines near the French coast. Other VICTORYs were launched in 1620 and 1663. The fifth VICTORY, launched in 1737, was Balchen's Victory named after the commander, Sir John Balchen, (1670-1744), when he perished with 1,150 crew members on the night of October 5, 1744 during a navagational error on the Casquets Rocks of Guernsey Island on the English Channel. The largest English warship at that time, the loss of this first rate was a severe blow to the Royal Navy.

These photos provided by Casey A. Hill on Facebook, of the model of Balchen's Victory made in 1740, for the Portsmouth Naval Dockyard.

Because of the model's old age, it has been restored several times. It is now in possession of the National Maritime Museum, Greenwhich, England.

Happy modeling   CrackersSurprise

 

 

 

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by steve5 on Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:03 AM

thank's for that cracker's , beautiful photo's . I'm sure michaelD would be interested in these .

 

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Wednesday, August 22, 2018 1:09 AM

Wow, stunning.  Thanks for posting.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    July, 2006
Posted by Michael D. on Wednesday, August 22, 2018 7:47 AM

I've been looking at those pictures for years, never gets old. Thanks for sharing those Crackers. Yes Steve the Heller kit can certainly be modified to this configuration, besides the obvious 4 tier galleries and spritsail mast, the differences in the hulls with the draught being the biggest, still wouldn't warrant modifing the Heller hull to achieve the look of this magnificent beauty!!.

 

Michael D.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Thursday, August 23, 2018 1:57 PM

crackers

"Most people think the only HMS Victory is the 1767 warship noted for her participation in the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805...

The fifth VICTORY, launched in 1737, was Balchen's Victory named after the commander, Sir Edward Balchen, when he perished with over 100 crew members on the night of October 5, 1744 during a navagational error...the loss of this first rate was a severe blow to the Royal Navy."

These photos provided by Casey A. Hill on Facebook, of the model of Balchen's Victory made in 1740, for the Portsmouth Naval Dockyard.

Crackers, Thank you!

I did know of the other HBMS Victory ships  but I had no knowledge of the Histories or that such a beautiful model existed of the 1737 Ship.

I have been collecting more information of the various Victory kits in plastic just this past week so your Post comes at the perfect time to keep me interested.

Great Pictures.

Thank you again for the thoughtful post.

   Nino

 P.S.  I noticed she has the entry port just like other 1st Rates. I am beginning to think the Heller kit of the  Victory should have them too.  I lean toward the Entry port being on the 1805 Victory inspite of several paintings.

 

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:55 PM

The VICTORY does have an entry port, which is now used for a stairway into the interior of the ship.

Happy modeling    Crackers    Big Smile

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, August 23, 2018 6:11 PM

Turner drew the ship in 1827, both port and starboard view; no entry ports.

Schetky drew the ship in 1824, starboard view; no entry port.

I consider that pretty definitive as these were drawings made at Portsmouth, not in studio.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Philadelphia Pa
Posted by Nino on Thursday, August 23, 2018 7:42 PM

Thanks Bill.

     It's tough sometimes to figure out what, where, and when with the old ships.  The entry port does make for an easy entrance for the tourists though.  I wish we had better info on the 1803 rebuild since as far I know Entry ports are never mentioned anywhere as being involved in the work.  There is a photo from 1884 that shows entry ports but no mention of who or when the ports were added.  I also have a copy of a partial plan supposedly of the 1765  Victory which shows an entry port on the STBD side but there is no date or ships name on the plan although the plan is purportedly the Victory. ( It's providence is supposed to be from the National Maritime Museum but I can't prove it).  Thank you for the info on the two drawings.  

    There seems to have been a debate on the issue for decades.   I hope some other folks will chime in on this Victory topic too.

     I have the Heller kit for when I get proficient (wishful thinking).  Good to know I may not have to cut any holes.

    Thanks.

           Jim.

 Edit:  Thanks again.  I found the sketches and also a most well-informed Entry port and Flag discussion at:
http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/7/t/168749.aspx?page=2
  • Member since
    June, 2011
  • From: St.Peters,Mo.
Posted by Mark Carroll on Thursday, August 23, 2018 8:20 PM

Thanks crackers,love seeing these!

  • Member since
    December, 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Friday, October 05, 2018 10:03 AM

Yesterday in history. On October 4, 1744, HMS VICTORY, often refered to as Balchen's VICTORY, was lost in a violent night storm on the Casquets Rocks near the Channel Islands.

In this painting, the doomed VICTORY is seen going down with guns blazing trying to attract attention from other ships in the fleet, who themselves were struggling to survive in the raging storm. It was to no avail. Captain Samuel Faulkner and Sir John Balchen with 1,100 members of the crew all perished. The loss of the VICTORY was a national disaster for the Royal Navy.The remains of the 274 year old wreck were recently discovered by the controversial American Company, Odyssey Marine Exploration.

Happy modeling     Crackers   Indifferent

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    April, 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Thursday, November 08, 2018 3:24 PM
In earlier posts it seems that the 1737 and 1765 Vics were mixed up :-) The old side entry discussion. After lots of research and discussion it is pretty sure, that this port disappeared with the 1788 great repair and reappeared in 1828 but one port more aft :-) XXXDAn

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