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Grafting a Revell USS Forrestal lower hull to the 1/547 USS Midway

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  • Member since
    September 2012
Grafting a Revell USS Forrestal lower hull to the 1/547 USS Midway
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 3:40 PM

This project is pretty far along and looks like it can be finished, so time to post work in progress. I've been posting in a GB thread, and discussion of CV-41 is showing up in another ship build thread, so I thought I'd pull my progress out and post it here.

 

So what's here? Morrison's Third Law of Modeling:

"No matter the size of the bench, the available work space will always be exactly two square feet"

Beyond that, and ignoring the CL hull at the top;

A glue bomb  from eBay, Revell kit of a supercarrier hull.

A Revell flatbottom carrier from the mid fifties (both the kit and the ship).

What could he have in mind

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 3:41 PM

Casting off, headed into the fairway.

I'm generally following an old Mike Ashey article back in 2002 that was in FSM.

The second plastic ship kit Revell ever marketed was the 1/540 scale CV-42 U.S.S. Franklin D. Roosevelt, second ship of the Midway Class. That ship was to be named Coral Sea, but when the President passed away that was changed. CV-43 became the Coral Sea.

The model is very good, the mold maker was one of the best in his time. It stands up well today. I've had this kit for a very long time but was put off by the flat bottom hull.

Not long ago Bill Morrison pointed out the article to me. Mike Ashey took the FDR, and grafted the below waterline hull of a Revell Forrestal to it. As the kits are the same scale, and although a little longer and a little wider, the Forrestal hull is the next class after the Midways and is very similar. I won't summarize the article, and I hesitate to post the link, but it's in the July 2002 issue of FSM.

I bought an old Saratoga glue bomb on eBay for shipping. Here are the two hulls side-by-side.

I cut each one at the waterline after checking to see that each was correct in terms of Sara's draft and Rosie's freeboard.

Before cutting the bottom out of the Midway class ship I installed cross braces to maintain the planform so that the deck will fit. 

That's it for today. I've ordered Star Fighter CV-41 Midway decals, and probably will get some better 40mms. The kit has those funny 20mms molded to the decks that look like a "Y", ala the Iowas models that came before. I'll be using some 1/700 ones I have- those things are always grossy overscale.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 3:44 PM

Monday night I finally had a chance to sit down at the bench.

Top: the first of two back-to-back angles glued to the underside of the flight deck. Aircraft carrier models can get crooked if the flight deck is securely clamped down on the hangar deck sidewalls, as those are never all level. I prefer to make the flight deck rigid, attach it, and fill in any visible gaps.

Middle: in similar fashion, the upper hull and hangar walls are all assembled, braced and made square.

Bottom: the lower hull is three parts. The rear two thirds actually fit well to the upper hull. I try not to do too much spreading or compressing as the stress will lead to warping later. Mike Ashey suggested that he caused himself problems by not dry fitting the sections without any force.  I'll glue the several sections together with the splines as shown, clamped flat to the bench so that the keel is straight and level. Then I'll attached the rigid assembly to the upper hull.

 

Bill

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 3:45 PM

Frankenship is coming along better than I would have expected.

The Saratoga hull really is a pretty close fit, with the Midway just a little bit shorter and a little narrower in the bows.

 

 
 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 3:51 PM

Update on Frankenship.

The major surgery is done, filler pieces in place and the first round of Bondo applied.

I'm a little impressed that the pre-planning is paying off.

Reminder: this is a Revell FDR CV-42 kit that had it's "flat bottom" removed, and a Revell Forrestal (Saratoga) kit that gave it's bottom for the cause.

Based on a Mike Ashey article 17 years ago in FSM.

 
 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 3:53 PM

The heavy lifting for Frankenship is complete. The Forrestal lower hull worked well, esp. in the middle sections. I did build up a new stern, and had to splice styrene into some of the bigger gaps.

A trick I've learned for filling gaps with styrene. Let's say you have a gap that's more or less 0.020". Rather than try to fish a 0.020" strip into it, take a scrap of 0.020" sheet styrene and force it in edgewise. Do it an inch or so at a time. Flood with solvent cement. When dry, trim off the extra and sand it down to be flush.

 

Bill

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 3:55 PM

In between coats of primer curing, I started work on topside details.

The 5" guns at first seemed to be detailed and look "busy", but closer examination shows that in typical 1960's model fashion; Revell added a lot of made up detail, like those rivets on the roof.

Also the weird draft shapes on the sides and the casting block under the barrel.

Basically I just cleaned it all off. The things look kind of simple now, but they should.

I also clipped off and reattached the barrels at an upward angle, as they normally would be.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 3:57 PM

Captain Morrison requesting permission to come on the flag bridge.

The work on Midway's hull conversion is finally over.

I'm quite happy with the outcome. It probably doesn't much match the Midway's finer lines at the stern, but using the successor class Forrestal's hull lower parts made sense. Thanks again to Mike Ashey for the information and to Bill Morrison for the incentive to make a full hull Midway.

I have smoothed the many seams, and put enough putty and time into it to call it finished.

At the stern, I've added the skegs/ keelsons for the inboard props, modified and used several of the shafts that came with the Forrestal class kit for the outer two. Typing this I realize I still need to add a brace at the end bearing of each of those last two.

I want to say thanks to the members on another thread here who suggested thinning Tamiya Gray putty with Tamiya Extra Thin cement. It's kind of a miracle material. Generous use.

Bruce sent me the following marvelous photo which allowed me to build new rudder assemblies.

I then reduced it to scale, and made a pattern for building new ones. The kit parts are also shown here. They are the same half draft depth as the original kit hull.

And the new parts.

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 3:58 PM

Here's todays progress. I painted the bottom of the hull a little higher than it needs to be, but I find thats easier than going back and touching up gaps. I think the anti fouling is probably browner than it ought to be, but my alternatives seem to be too red. It does look like a faded or dirty version of the paint in Brian's photo.

I've painted the anti skid on the gallerieres, anchor and fantail decks. Again, masked for a little overlap, but it's my best way to proceed. Haze Gray is next once the red and Dark Gray are cured, later next week. While I'm waiting for that, I will get started on the air wing.

 
 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 3:59 PM

I spent a couple of hours setting up the boot stripe on Midway. At the risk of boring those who know, I offer this mini toot.

Ignore the tape because I staged this after I marked the hull, but set a pencil where you want to draw a line for the boot topping. You will do this twice. Once at the top and once at the bottom.

A boot topping or stripe is not a constant width, if you will. It has a top line and a bottom line that are parallel in vertical axis.

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    March 2019
  • From: Post Falls, Idaho
Posted by Sigep Ziggy on Saturday, November 23, 2019 6:26 AM

Very impressive, GM!  You are a great asset to this forum.

your shipmate,

Ziggy

 

fox
  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Narvon, Pa.
Posted by fox on Saturday, November 23, 2019 12:39 PM

A lot of great work there GM!Yes

Jim  Captain

 Main WIP: 

   On the Bench:  Revell 1/96 USS Kearsarge - 70% 

I keep hitting "escape", but I'm still here.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Wednesday, December 18, 2019 3:42 PM

Outstanding work, GM!  Paying close attention to make sure I learn some things.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: Cape Cod, Mass
Posted by Rick Sr on Monday, December 30, 2019 2:48 PM

been following this...you used Bondo? As in auto body Bondo?

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:17 AM

I am very impressed with your work GM and how this is coming together.

Scott

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, August 1, 2020 6:20 PM

Finished!

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Saturday, August 1, 2020 8:21 PM

you didn't correct Sara's bow error as is missing the bulb bow that the Midway class has.

http://www.modelerjoe.net/shipmodellist.html#RevellForrestal

https://www.midwaysailor.com/midwaymemorabilia/memory85b.jpg

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, August 1, 2020 8:34 PM

It wasn't that important to me. 

But it could be done. I have the drawing I need and a good photo of the bow of FDR is on navsource.

Maybe I'll make two and save one for Forrestal.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Saturday, August 1, 2020 10:02 PM

the 2nd link above i posted shows that in the drawing.

  • Member since
    June 2017
Posted by Chemteacher on Saturday, August 1, 2020 10:26 PM
Outstanding job. I appreciate the tip on setting the boot line. Great work.

On the bench: Revell-USS Arizona; Tamiya 1/700 HMS Nelson

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:35 AM

Bill,

I'm really glad that you had resurrected this and finished her. You did an outstanding job as usual!  She looks great!

Bill

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:41 AM

Thank you, Bill. I was hoping you would see this, as the instigator of the project. 

I think I've come up with a pretty straight forward approach to adding the prow bulge.

It's sort of an odd one as it Widens the bottom of the ship a little but does not protrude forward. So the model will remain the same in side profile.

ourtesy navsource and this was the FDR, but it will do.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Sunday, August 2, 2020 12:12 PM

how are you going to do the bow & with what? on my Arizona kitbash thread, i widened the bottom of the bows upto the waterline on both the Tennessee & Colorado classes using only plastic not putty nor bondo. marked where the widest point was both vertically & horizontal then proceeded to carve & sand to shaped. doing the samething on a Lindberg 1/500 scale tanker i'm slowly working on.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, August 2, 2020 12:48 PM

I don't want to take the model off the base, so it will be tricky.

I've measured the area involved. From the bottom of the bootstripe to the bottom of the hull is 1.60 inches. The overall width of the bulb, from the drawing we both have, is 0.25 inches. Currently the width of the very front of the kit hull below the waterline is 0.08 inches. I don't know how far back it needs to go, but I would guess about an inch at the most.

Step 1 I need to make sure I still have that color of paint! 

Step 2 will be to mask off and sand clean the area, both sides.

Step 3 I will make a whole series of lifts, layers, what have you; cut from thin styrene and layer them on. Try to draw them up ahead of time to get as close to the final shape as I can. Subtract 0.08 from 0.25; 0,17 or 0.085 each side. Four layers of 0.02 inch styrene each side should do it. 

Step 4 minimal putty and sand. I don't see any way around that.

Step 5 paint.

Note for a future build. The F9F-5s are a little out of date with the model. Earlier straight wing Panthers would be right, but I didn't think the AM ones I could find looked good, and no desire to spend $ 50 on them either. I think the Cougars "look" good. I replaced all of ther landing gear.

 

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by ddp59 on Sunday, August 2, 2020 2:45 PM

go back from the tip of the bow til you hit the "B" section as per the drawing, whatever that distance is. i usually print the drawing out on "legal size" paper on my printer, measure the length of the drawing & the model then divide the drawing length into the model length to get the scale number used to multiply that number against the distance from bow to to the "b" mark. transfer the resulting measurement onto the hull & that is how far back you have to go to build up with plastic. i use .040" to buildup that area as less glue to cure therefore more solid. i would cut the bottom of the hull off from the bow tip to the "b" mark then layer it horizontally from the bow tip to the "b" mark with each layer the width at the "b" mark. once all built up, leave alone for a day or so for the glue to fully cure. square it up, mark the center line of the bow vertically & the widest point horizontally then start carving, grinding(dremel tool if you have) & sanding to shape. you probably find you'll not need any putty at all as i don't using this method.

why not cut the wings off your Panthers & make & glue new straight wings?

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, August 2, 2020 5:06 PM

The bow is a separate piece. I don't remember if I reinforced the joint, but I did take photos.

The Panther has straight across horizontal stabs as well..

The only real difference in the Cougar deployment is that Midway had her bow enclosed  then years before the angle deck conversion. That might almost be the easiest thing to do.

Modeling is an excuse to buy books

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Sunday, August 2, 2020 6:38 PM

Nice carrier.

All the custom work you did is way above my pay grade and I don't even understand most of it, but the end result sure looks good. Yes

-Greg

  • Member since
    June 2008
Posted by lewbud on Sunday, August 2, 2020 9:15 PM

Very nice G!

Buddy- Those who say there are no stupid questions have never worked in customer service.

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Monday, August 3, 2020 7:49 AM

GMorrison

Note for a future build. The F9F-5s are a little out of date with the model. Earlier straight wing Panthers would be right, but I didn't think the AM ones I could find looked good, and no desire to spend $ 50 on them either. I think the Cougars "look" good. I replaced all of ther landing gear.

  

 

Actually, they are nice little F9F-6 or 7 Cougars. The F9F-5 Panthers are the early straight wing aircraft. The biggest difference between the -6 and 7 variants and the -8 variant is that in the  the trailing wing fillet extended to the end of the exhaust.

The F9F-6 went into production in 1952. Wether they should be -5 or -6/7 variants, you did a great job on your build. Thanks for sharing.

For your info the difference between a -6 and a -7; the P&W engine was temporally replaced with an Allison engine!

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 8:45 AM

Shipwreck
 
GMorrison

Note for a future build. The F9F-5s are a little out of date with the model. Earlier straight wing Panthers would be right, but I didn't think the AM ones I could find looked good, and no desire to spend $ 50 on them either. I think the Cougars "look" good. I replaced all of ther landing gear.

  

 

 

 

Actually, they are nice little F9F-6 or 7 Cougars. The F9F-5 Panthers are the early straight wing aircraft. The biggest difference between the -6 and 7 variants is that in the -8 variant, the trailing wing fillet extended to the end of the exhaust.

The F9F-6 went into production in 1952. Wether they should be -5 or -6/7 variants, you did a great job on your build. Thanks for sharing.

For your info the difference between a -6 and a -7; the P&W engine was temporally replaced with an Allison engine!

 

They turned out really good. I really had to do a lot of carving and filling on the old Renwall ones I used on my CV16 and they still looked funky.  I wish I went further like you did with the landing gear. 

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