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Painting PE questions

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  • Member since
    April 2020
  • From: Mountains of Western MD
Painting PE questions
Posted by BBorBust on Sunday, May 31, 2020 11:47 PM

So as I venture on into my KGV build I found a couple questions I was asking myself about painting the PE. I bought the Eduard cranes and railings PE kit and was curious about how I should go about painting them.

 

My first question is a matter of when.... When should I paint the railings? Should I paint them while they are still in the sprue? I feel like this would be a better option because I dont want to damage or break a piece after it has been attached to the ship. But a few videos I have watched showed guys doing just that..... putting the PE railings on, and painting them afterwards. What is everyone's preferred method on this for a rookie PE modeler?

 

Secondly has to do with color. What color should I paint the railings and cranes? Should the railings be the same light gray i will be painting the hull with? Darker? Lighter? And what about the cranes? Should they be the same gray color? Black?

 

Thanks for the help!

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, May 31, 2020 11:57 PM

The PE vendors are jerks when they photograph their product installed. It shows off the bright and shiny object, but that won't work.

There is no good reason to paint it in place, period.

Clean the fret, usually with alchohol. No wiping, let it air dry.

Prime.

Paint the section of the fret with final color. It's usually the vertical color.

I always photocopy the fret and circle areas of different color.

Cut out, bend, install.

Go back in with a very fine brush and touch up chips at bends, glue.

As for the lifelines on gun decks, they are stanchions that are removable, strung with rope or cable by the deck division. Always cleared for combat so the blasts don't rip them up.

 

Bill

 

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2010
Posted by potchip on Monday, June 1, 2020 12:25 AM

PE are painted only after assembly in 99% of cases. Mostly because, paint adhersion on PE/metal is generally poor and handling (folding/cutting) will damage the paint causing rework or worse. It also helps with gluing the PE parts since you'd rather want glue on metal than glue on paint which is as strong as a bond as paint on metal, read not strong at all!

If you are a practioner of a hairy stick, it is just one of those things that are harder to do - than spray painting. Have to reach all the nooks and crannies by brush, as well as not over-applying the paint to avoid smothering the finer details. 

Railing are typically same color as hull, technically some chains (horizonal bars) can be black/darker but in 1/350 scale it's not necessary to paint them. 

Since you've done a ship end to end now it's time to introduce IMO a systematic way to build model ships, starting with planning.

When building a ship, depending on the color scheme, you hace to plain ahead. Unlike Aircraft (paint cockpit. assemble fuselarge, mask, paint) and Armour (assembly, paint), subassembly on ships vary depending on the color scheme. So if eg your crane is the same colour as the deck structures they are attached to, you typically glue them together then paint together. But you also need to visualise when you designing sub assemblies, that you do not over-build structures as to make subsequent painting difficult. Ie you do not want to create hard to reach spaces that needs to be a different colour unless absolutely necessary. It's tempting to build build build and see progress but often times it is counter-productive. 

Basically you want to paint as much parts of 1 coat of colour in one go, call them sub-assemblies dividied by color. Usually ships has 1 or more vertical colour and another colour for the horizonatal surfaces. the sequence of which you do it depends on how easy is it to mask each colour, and most commonly, people paint ther main deck first be it wooden planks or deck blues, then mask the painted horizonatal surfaces then paint the vertical surfaces whatever colour they should be. This is simply because it is far easier to mask a relatively flat surface (horizonal surface) than trying the other way around. 

Say a ship like KGV with a fairly simple scheme, I would design my process thus:

1. before installing any PE railings, I would paint the wooden deck parts and horizontal deck surfaces (darker greys) first. Why? because it's harder to mask the deck after you've installed PE, and since PE rails are to be painted the same colour as the vertical surfaces, you don't need to install them first[quote user="BBorBust"]

 If you have a superstructure level that has a horizontal colour, you should not glue on the upper level that sits on the horizonatal surface - it's easier to mask a mostly flat surface of an empty deck than masking the small gaps when everything are sitting on top of it.

2. mask the various deck levels, leave gap on each deck edge where PE railings are to be installed - obvioiusly you must not stick PE on paint mask...in KGV's case, the boat deck on which the crane sits (including the base of the crane) are of a different colour so you probably want to paint the cranes seperately (light grey) then install them later.

3. Apply PE railings etcs, resist temptation to stick on any superstructure parts on hull, but keep any sub assemblies that are same colour as comopletely built as possible before painting

4. Paint the rest of the colour, and peel off masking horizontal surface masking.

 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Monday, June 1, 2020 8:29 AM
So, we have two different approaches to achieve the same results. Which is right? When I graduated from FDU, NJ in '72 The Dean of the business school told us that the correct answer is "it depends". Or, if you prefer Tevye's wisdom in Fiddler On the Roof; "they are both right". Personally, I like to at least prime on the fret and final coat where convent (I do prefer on the fret).

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution - rigging

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep and research

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8 Prep and research

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, June 1, 2020 1:52 PM

I apply the PE, including their railings, to any subassemby before I attach it to the main piece, finishing off with the main deck railings.  Sometimes these subassemblies can get pretty well hidden by other structures and cranes, masts, etc.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    April 2020
  • From: Mountains of Western MD
Posted by BBorBust on Monday, June 1, 2020 3:37 PM

Thanks for the input everyone. I think my approach will be as follows; wipe down with rubbing alcohol, let it air dry. Then spray tamiya primer on the entire fret. Paint the pieces that are straight or has few bends, and then the pieces that has more bends, paint with a very fine brush once attached.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, June 1, 2020 7:24 PM

Do pre assemble as much PE as you can, either folding it up or gluing together subassemblies. Then paint, then put on ship.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by TheMongoose on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:32 AM

I've been soaking the PE in apple cider vinegar for a day, rinse with water, thoroughly air dry, prime with autobody acid etching primer decanted to airbrush, then paint as much as i think it merits. For instance rails, ladders and life preservers for sure. If it's any kind of box assembly or walls where the joint will be visible i do the bending and gluing with a primed part, then final paint. I have found the acid etching primer to be an improvement on adhesion if i let it sit atleast a day before handling and final paint. 

In the pattern: Scale Shipyard's 1/48 Balao Class Sub! leaning out the list...NOT! Ha, added to it again - Viper MkVii, 1/32 THUD & F-15J plus a weekend madness build!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 8:58 AM

GMorrison

 

Clean the fret, usually with alchohol. No wiping, let it air dry.

Prime.

Paint the section of the fret with final color. It's usually the vertical color.

I always photocopy the fret and circle areas of different color.

Cut out, bend, install.

Go back in with a very fine brush and touch up chips at bends, glue.

 

Bill

 

 

 

Ditto

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:02 AM

TheMongoose

I've been soaking the PE in apple cider vinegar for a day, ...

 

Be careful using cooking vinegar.  Many food vinegars include spices that can precipitate out on the part.  While the cleaning afterwards should remove it, the only vinegar I use on models is white vinegar, and even then I put a few drops on a hard surface to let it dry, then examine it for any crud.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by TheMongoose on Tuesday, June 2, 2020 4:10 PM

Ahh good advice Don. No issues with mine to date. Whew

In the pattern: Scale Shipyard's 1/48 Balao Class Sub! leaning out the list...NOT! Ha, added to it again - Viper MkVii, 1/32 THUD & F-15J plus a weekend madness build!

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