USS ARIZONA - A different Scenario

AND, most of the older BB's were originally equipped with torpedo tubes but were deleted later. They were considered ineffective in the battleline especially when destroyers and cruisers were present.

CapnMac,  Texas had no room to store aircraft aft as crowded with weapons & associated gun tubs. Texas's catapault was still used til end of war. about 40 20mm guns  8 40mm quads.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013535b.jpg An OS2U Kingfisher scout plane is seen before launch atop the middle turret while at Iwo Jima, February 1945

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/0135861a.jpg The Texas (BB-35) steams into the port of Los Angeles, California, sometime in mid October 1945

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/35a.htm 

HooYah Deep Sea

If you look at the majority of the modernizations,

Yes and no.  Which is just it.  Both Texas & New York kept their 5"51's, tripod masts, and midships cranes.  IIRC, NY carried no a/c after '43; Texas stowed 2 aft, the catapault was retained on the third turret, but not used.  TX gained 6 quad 40s, and around a dozen 20s. 

Cutting down the spotting decks on the houses on the tripod masts was considered, but would have required too much dock time (preferred method was to hitch a crane to the hosue, and take a cutting torch to the tripod legs, then setting the house on th edockside for any work, at a much reduced altitude.

TX & NY were not extensively danaged by air attack, either--so that's a factor.

Now, an interesting supposition could be made in that the "Pearl" rebuilds had a great deal of effort spent on whether or not to fit torpedo launchers. 

Still, it's a fascinating exercise.

most of the concave in the stern plated over. will finish that plating then use the dremel tool to smooth it out before gluing 5mm wide stripes onto that plating but parallel to the deck at least 3 layers thick to give the stern a rounded look.

If you look at the majority of the modernizations, here is what you will see; turret three catapults deleted, mainmast, be it tripod or cage, deleted and replaced with a boxy tower supporting the aft main battery director and a couple of quad 40mm plats / tubs. Then you have 5"/38's replacing the secondary and anti air guns, and more 40mm tubs. Then you add a bunch of bunches of 20mm between everything else.

Other than the stern cranes, all others are deleted and replaced with boat handling booms. Then you add a bunch of 40 and 20mm directors and some surface search and FC radar .  .  . and you are done, Viola!

Ahhh, if it were just that simple !!!

Looking forward to seeing some pics as you build. Definitely peaked my interest here.

i meant the stern crane location as didn't even think of others.

As I am looking at a 1943-44 completion, the stern crane will be needed, but the Frame 89 B&A (boat and aircraft) cranes will not. I will be rescaling Arizona drawings to ascertain locations of vents, windlasses and other deck equipment, and hatches. With the blank deck to play with, I've been tempted to relocate the aft line handling winch further aft as on Pennsy.

i'll mark off the 14" barbetts, catapult & crane locations plus a few other things. as i don't know if you are going to use the modernized Pennsylvania superstructure deck or not, i'll leave that alone til you tell me otherwise. already started to fill in the stern like i did in some of those pictures i sent you this past Sunday afternoon.

So, had several conversations with my favorite Canadian, and have decided to go with one of his corrected ARIZONA hulls. Therefore, almost everything other than planning, is now on hold until I get the hull back. From what I'm told, I will have to rebuild / re-detail the main and fore deck sections as they will come back only as flat plastic. The project just doubled in perspective.

There was considerable angst over removing the "proven effective" 5"51 mounts and using the "new" 5"38 twins.  The 51 was considered better for both surface engagements and shore bombardment.  As the Kamikaze threat becem real, the AAA utility of the twin 38 shifted that perception.

It's important to remember that the "what" decisions would be made very early on, and would have been decided on perceptions in that time frame.

Arizona was considered a "modern" ship right up to 07DEC41, had she only suffered minor damage, they probably would have just finished out fitting the 3" AA fit out that had been intended.  Perhaps 40mm mounts to replace the 1.1 inch mounts.  That would have been based on the 1942 thinking, which would have still envisioned surface actions.

Coral Sea and Midway would stil lbe in the future; the success of "island hopping" as yet unknown.

Now, in fairness, Arizona might have been moved to the Atlantic, where the needs would be much different.

None of which would get in the way of a build with a grafted-on 5"38 battery (and ad lest two fire directors).  radar on the main fire control directors, a very much leaned-down masting with air search and surface search radar installs.  And a huge pile of 40mm & 20mm mounts.

I do appreciate all of the input, please don't stop. But despite the North Carolina's, the South Dakota's and the Iowa's; look at the variety of 'modernizations' across the remaining older battleships. Nevada got a major modernization, and she was the oldest (everything older only got somewhat upgraded), whereas Colorado retained her shielded 5"/25's throughout the war and Idaho only upgraded to 5"/38 singles. Pennsylvania got a upgrade and a modernization. The New Mexico's hardly changed at all, and the Tennessee's and the remaining two of the Colorado's all got major modernizations and ended up looking fairly identical by the end of the war.

End result, lots of changes but great variety across the board. I'm just looking at playing along. As I mentioned to David, you have to look at the timeline as well as the alterations.

And this is supposed to be fun. I'm just letting the imagination out on a longer leash.

As for the coastal battery; sending Arkansas, New York or Texas would have made more sense, logistically speaking.

BB-61 Iowa was already 18 months into construction by 12/7/41, for example. Too much resource diversion into rebuilding BB-39 would have been a stretch.

It might not be too big a stretch to have Arizona be a stationary coastal defence battery  at Darwin .

Bill

Pennsylvania finished her modernization around January 1943 so both would theoritically been identical at that time.

http://navsource.org/archives/01/038/013805d.jpg    A new deck house is base for 8 Twin 5-in. 38-cal. The mainmast is replaced by a stump tower carrying a Main Battery Director to open sky arcs. San Francisco, CA. 28 January 1943.

Very true, but you also have to look at the times lines for those modernizations. California and West Virginia required major rebuilds right after Pearl Harbor, whereas Tennessee did not. Thus, Tennessee's modernization was delayed. Additionally, West Virginia was an entirely different class yet finished the war looking like the California. 

So, if we take this 'new scenario', Arizona would have potentially been modernized sooner than Pennsylvania, who got a quick make-over and then back into the fight. You see, timeline makes a big difference, and I'm looking at '43-'44 for this build, not 1945.

This is where the fun of it lies !!

i think the Arizona would be intially be a clone of the Pennsylvania after completion of modernization. look at the Tennessee, California & West Virginia, basically identical initially after completion of modernization.

2 emails sent

David, if you PM me an address, I will send you a set of hull halves. 

Concerning the 3D parts, I may pick up some, depending on what I can glean from the MISSOURI kit (when it arrives). As I said, I'm not just building a 'Pennsy" out of this, since I'm sure that ARIZONA would have varied a bit; they always do (insert 20 years of naval service / experience here). There will most definately be some similarities, but my experience, on several different classes of ships, says there will be differences. Thanks much for the references on the parts.  

send me the hull(s).

http://www.3dmodelparts.com/1-429-single-20-mm-oerlikon-cannons-pedestal-mount-12-pcs/

http://www.3dmodelparts.com/1-426-quadruple-40-mm-bofors-autocannons-no-shields-8-pcs/

https://www.model-monkey.com/product-page/1-426-uss-pennsylvania-bb-38-aft-fire-control-tower-1945

https://www.model-monkey.com/product-page/1-426-5-38-mk-32-mounts-for-uss-pennsylvania-and-uss-nevada-1943-1945

https://www.model-monkey.com/product-page/1-426-uss-pennsylvania-bb-38-late-war-directors

https://www.model-monkey.com/product-page/1-426-mk-37-directors-late-square-back

https://www.model-monkey.com/revell-scale-426?page=2