Buying the revel constitution

Hi Steve5.

I do not know about the 1/96 United States but I do have two kits of the 1/96 USS Constitution and might be able to help you out.

The Revell USS United States kit was first released in 1976.  It was developed from the earlier Constitution kit which was first released in 1965.  They share many parts but not all.  United States has a very different transom and other different parts to replicate an additional deckhouse. 

In other words, you can't build a Constitution from a United States kit out of the box.

According to Scalemates.com, the last production run for both Revell's Consitution and United States was 2017, released by Revell Germany.

Both kits turn up on eBay from time to time.

Hope this helps.

Steve5, I did a quick browse on ebay and they have a 1/96 USS Constitution in a newer boxing, for $62.00.

Considering the size of the ship and the amount of parts, that doesn't sound too bad.  When it first came out those large ships were going for about 15.00 dollars.  I remember my Father mentioning that to my Mother when he brought one home for my birthday when I was a kid.

Yeah, that kit is an oldie but everyone says that it still ranks up there as one of Revell's best kits.

Given the reality that there isn't a lot of selection- use scalemates as a guide to recognize the older boxings because the moldings are sharper.

The older ones have ratlines that are thread dipped in rubber. Those are suoerior to the solid plastic ones. With luck you can find one with a crew.

For a while the hull bottom came painted copper but that's not important. Vac sails are pretty ok as well.

I think anything up to $ 100 is well worth it.

My modeling math for ships:

A Fujimi 917K might cost $ 500 and take me 50 hours. $ 1/hr modeling pleasure.

A Revell 1/32 Spitfire might cost me $ 75 and take 40 hours to build. $ 1.90/hr of modeling pleasure.

Ditto a Takom M4.

THe big Revell Constitution might cost $ 125 and take 500 hrs to build. $ 0.25/hr. 

Ships take a while so build other models while you are working on her but do get one.

Bill

thanks for all the replys . 

bill I did find an old boxed one , which I have bid on for about $150au , with postage .

tjs , thanks for the heads up but I couldn't find the one you were talking about . 

MM , If I don't win it the United states , sounds like a good second .

this is typical of the pricing in the land of oz .

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/294324183833?hash=item448716a319:g:cfgAAOSwj19hEK7K

steve5, if the one you're bidding on doesn't workout, I still have one that is a newer boxing.

If picking up a Constitution kit doesn't work out, USS United States is a great choice.  She has a very interesting history and had a long and successful service life.

Before being officially named, she was called "Frigate A", the first of the "Original Six Frigates" authorized by the Naval Act of 1794, and is considered the first ship of the newly formed United States Navy.

She was very well armed.  Unlike her more famous sistership Constitution and younger sistership USS President, which were fit with 32-pounder carronades, United States was fit with whopping 42-pounders.

She is best known for her capture of HMS Macedonian, which went on to have a terrific service record with the US Navy as USS Macedonian.  Less well known, Herman Melville, author of Moby *** [the white whale story - FineScale bots edit this name], served aboard USS United States as an ordinary seaman in 1943 and later published a book called White-Jacket largely based on his experiences aboard the ship.

Some have said USS United States' sailing qualities were badly affected by modifications and she became a poor sailer.  But this may be false.  In 1843, while at Callao in Peru, United States challenged USS Constellation, with a reputation as being a very fast ship, and the British ship HMS Vindictive to a race out of the harbor. 

Vindictive, originally built as a Vengeur-class 74-gun ship-of-the-line, was reduced one deck in height (called "razeed") in the late 1820s-early 1830s to become a very fast and agile 50-gun 4th-rate, with a nearly identically sized hull to United States (just 1 foot longer than United States).* 

United States handily defeated both Constellation and Vindictive.

United States survived until 1865.  In 1861 at the beginning of the Civil War, she was seized by Confederate troops when Union forces abandoned the Norfolk Navy Yard.  She was recommissioned as CSS United States, though called "CSS Confederate States" by some.  She was ordered sunk in Virginia's Elizabeth River as a blockship.  Raised by Union forces in 1864, she was eventually broken up at Norfolk Navy Yard.

* A drawing of Vindictive as a 50-gun fourth-rate apears on Wikipedia (click here).

But, what you will end up with is a version of the Constitution with a poop deck, a second row of cabin windows and a roundhouse on the poop deck.

Steve of course knows this- the two actual ships weren't "sisters" in much of any sense other than being pretty similar.

Bill

GMorrison

But, what you will end up with is a version of the Constitution with a poop deck, a second row of cabin windows and a roundhouse on the poop deck. Steve of course knows this- the two actual ships weren't "sisters" in much of any sense other than being pretty similar.

And this is an important distinction.

As the ships were as similar as say a Hawker Hurricane to a Supermarine Spitfire.  And not, say, in the way an M4A1 and M4A3 Sherman are dissimilar.

This has long been a curse in the model ship biz.  Of kitting an M-47 tank and then reboxing it as a Panther.

I wasn't suggesting building United States as Constitution, but rather building a United States kit as USS United States since United States is herself an excellent subject.

Model Monkey

a United States kit as USS United States since United States is herself an excellent subject.

The subject is an excelent one, correct.

Where Bill and I are going to concur, though, is that, while the Constitution hull as Revell cast it is about the same beam and depth as Constitution, the length it wrong by somewhere from 8 to 24 feet (scholars vary on this), which is 1 to 3 inches (25 to 75mm) to chop out of the Constitution hull.

Which gets into whether United States has 15 or 16 gunports, and just how the spar deck was laid out for the 42 pounder carronades (much lager than the 32s on Constitution).

There's question about just how the masts were dimensioned, too.  (Mind, there used to be a "thing" where you used the masts & yards from United States to correctly mast Constitution so it would not have the goofy "bypass" skymasts.)

It's not as bad as when Revell tried to pass off Bounty as Beagle, more like trying to kit an Bishop using an M7 Priest.

steve5, did you ever end up with a kit, either the USS United States or the USS Constitution?

yes , tom I did , won it on ebay today . it went from $65 US , with postage and GST , to $205 au , which still is pretty good . I'm happy , they said it should be here by the end of september . it's the old kit , and saw on the box figures were included , hoping they are still in there .

thankyou to all who tried to help , and all the history on both ships , loved it .

Those figures are a remarkable item, Whoever carved the masters really knew what they were doing. IIRC the kneeling gunner even has a queue under his flat brimmed hat.

Please scan the sprue before they are brought on board in shackles by the Marines.

I'm not aware of the mast issue, but I think I get the drift.

For the history of those two ships and the others- Constellation, Congress, President and Cheseapeake; plus the poor old Philadelphia- your assigned homework is Ian Toll's " Six Frigates".

The original funding was for four 44s and two 36s IIRC.

But, along with other struggles such as inventing a Navy, a Federal Government and a military budget, these were all sort of specified in principal by one office, "Joshua  Humphreys", but built in six different yards in six different cities under the supervision of three of four ship designers, who were meddled with by each assigned captain.

And of course a seniority list didn't really exist in a nascient Navy, so whoever could shout the loudest often carried the day.

There are a number of ilustrations of the period of the "United States", by the artist Roux. They show sailors sitting on the spanker boom, or could it be the roof of a cabin on the poop?

I've witnessed harsh debate, which would have resulted in drawn cutlasses, over the number of gunports in that drawing, plus the old fight about true cabin windows versus blanked ones.

And Chapelle provides this, which seems to be about as far as Revell was willing to go.

Bill

Congrats steve5!  I know that you'll be having a lot of "fun" this winter tying knots at your workbench.  A question for the general forum members- What after-market company(s) do you recommend for Revell's 1/96 USS Constitution?  I got this kit for myself as a retirement present so I'm willing to go "all in" on this one(at least until the wife says ENOUGH).  I'm thinking wood decks, resin or 3-d printed parts, even the dreaded photo etched.  Lastly, does anyone recommend a company that makes display cases that are big enough for these and smaller sailing ship models?

Thanks everyone!

HiSModels has just about everything you need:  https://www.hismodel.com/articles-category-15

You can also buy blocks and much better rigging thread from Syren: https://syrenshipmodelcompany.com/

or ModelExpo: https://modelexpo-online.com/model-shipways-beautiful-blocks.html

And Model Monkey (he scans this forum) has some truly excellent 3D printed stuff to really dress up the kit.

Bob

Thanks Luvspinball!  Looks like I'm going shopping.

there's a fair bit of gear here too tom .

www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/ship_fittings.html

Hi Guys....

I'm new to this forum and hope that I can share my experience about the Revell model of the USS Constitution.  I built mine in 1978.  Back then it was Revell-Monogram #850398 and had the scale crew and and came complete with outrigger sails and the aft cabin can be viewed throuh the windows.  It even has paintings on the walls. 

The new Revell model (German) is #85-5405 which is far less detailed.  I will gladly provide pictures of mine.  The "Commodor" is visible in the cabin.

I need to figure out how to post images here.  I'll wait to hear from you guys.

Regards...

Hal

Update 09/15/2021....

I won't be posting pictures here.  I have pictures in the gallery at HobbyLinc.

GMorrison

 

THe big Revell Constitution might cost $ 125 and take 500 hrs to build. $ 0.25/hr. 

Ships take a while so build other models while you are working on her but do get one.

I built my model of the Constitution in 1978.  It was the Revell-Monogram kit which is #850398.  The new one available from the present Revell in Germany is #85-5405.  This new one is of a far lesser detail and far fewer parts.  I doesn't have the full cabin, crew or out riggers with those sails and lacks the great detail of the older model. The life boats and gun deck are by far better represented.

My build took between 550 and 600 hours.  A master cabinet maker made the mahogany and glass case.  As soon as I figure out how, I will submit pictures including the cabin with paintings done on the walls.

Regards...

Hal

Hi Hal,

To post photos here, you'll need to upload your photos to an online image hosting service.  Once your photos are uploaded there, start a thread to show your model here and in your posts you can link to your photos and they will appear in your post.

There are many image hosting services, some free, some not, each with its own strengths and weaknesses.  Google "image hosting service" to compare features and pricing then find one that best meets your needs.

Looking forward to seeing pictures of your model.

Hi, M.M. 

     I still have the two ships unbuilt. The Conctitution and the United States.One was done by Revell(Connie) and the( other by Imaii)United States. The United States was called "Ole Wagon " by her sailors because of her inability to sail as close to the wind and steer as well as the Connie. The United States WAS a great straight course Sailor. But being all ships of the class were tweaked by both the yards and Captains the truth is hard to discern.

    They are Both beautiful Models. BUT, darned if I would let anyone too close to see the detail in the Great Cabin and adjoining spaces on the original! That detail was a great surprise to me. That's as Far as I got when the wife got ill and models were the last thing I worried about.

Model Monkey

Hi Hal,

To post photos here, you'll need to upload your photos to an online image hosting service.  Once your photos are uploaded there, start a thread to show your model here and in your posts you can link to your photos and they will appear in your post.

There are many image hosting services, some free, some not, each with its own strengths and weaknesses.  Google "image hosting service" to compare features and pricing then find one that best meets your needs.

Looking forward to seeing pictures of your model.

 

Thanks for the response and info.  Sounds like a big hassle to post photos to an unsecure website.  I think I will pass.  I am in the process of uploading pictures to HobbyLinc which is free of charge for me to upload. The link is secure as well.

Regards....

Hal

Model Monkey

Hi Hal,

To post photos here, you'll need to upload your photos to an online image hosting service.  Once your photos are uploaded there, start a thread to show your model here and in your posts you can link to your photos and they will appear in your post.

There are many image hosting services, some free, some not, each with its own strengths and weaknesses.  Google "image hosting service" to compare features and pricing then find one that best meets your needs.

Looking forward to seeing pictures of your model.

 

Thanks for responding.... I will pass on posting here.  Pictures will be on HobbyLinc which is a secure site.

Regards....

Hal

I strongly recommend www.HisModel.com as a source for upgraded parts for the Revell Constitution.  His parts are crisp, well shaped, and suitably detailed.  Also, there are several sources online for display cases. A basic search for cases will give you sources.

Bill

Steve,

The Revell USS United States kit is based on the previous USS Constitution but includes a roundhouse on the poop and the quarter galleries incorrectly shows two levels.  But, it can build into a decent model.

Bill

thanks bill , still might look for the united states .

well it finally arrived ,.  soon found out why it was a bit cheaper . the contents were fairly beaten up , a few broken pieces , railings etc , but I should be able to handle that . 

 on the plus side it came with figures and a complete one piece rigging guide excellent .