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Butler, Buckley-beautiful Ships!

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  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Butler, Buckley-beautiful Ships!
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Wednesday, August 21, 2024 11:07 AM

Hi!

       Yeah, I am sure all you ship guys are familiar with the class names. Have you ever really looked at them though. Through the eyes of and artist or designer these ladies had looks for sure. Sheer( deck profile) that were very yacht looking. Bows flared with a certain "Spunk" to them. Sterns Not old looking But business like!

         Think about how many Depth charges rolled off those sterns or were fired from"K"guns midship! Couldtnt see much from a distance though.light guns but with a bone in her teeth she could ,if she had to, Cut a Sub almost in half! Tough old girls they were. Beautiful and Deadly. Really look at one sometimes and if you can get the old REVELL kit and enjoy the beauty of the ship in your hands!       T.B.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, August 21, 2024 11:59 AM

Trumpeter's USS England.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Wednesday, August 21, 2024 12:46 PM

Black Cat Models (blackcatmodels.eu) makes two versions of Butlers, early and late, in 350 scale 3D resin & brass.

They also make a couple of Edsall versions - basic and USCG.  And to cap off they make four flavors of Cannon; early, late AA fit, Lend-Lease to France, and the USS Slater (museum in Albany, NY).  I have the Slater and it is a joyous mix of fine details.

 

To confuse things even more, PitRoad made a kit which added to the Trumpeter England kit to make a Cannon -- representing one of the several JMSDF DEs transferred from the USN. 

PitRoad had a marketing agreement with Trumpeter for dual development of projects.   PitRoad had first marketing rights in the Asian markets, while Trumpeter had rights to the West

 

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, August 23, 2024 7:44 AM

HI ,Bill!

       That's the one I spoke of sometime back, About two or three years ago. Did it in Non-Specular Sea blue. That's the one that's hard to see on the desk!

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, August 23, 2024 7:46 AM

Hi Ed!

    Now, see what I mean! Look at the beautiful curve of that Sheer!

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, August 23, 2024 4:42 PM

The mechanics of depth charge attack are not always laid out.

USN d/c have settings for Shallow, Mid-water, and Deep.  Round numbers, given that these are pressure-sensing fuses, that's 50, 100, and 150 feet.

Which comes off as very shallow depths for lighting off quarter-ton explosions (1/6 ton for the streamlined Mk 11of only 350#).

But, part of that is how long it takes things to sink in seawater.  And, just how deep you can keep, and maintain, a sonar contact (which is lost pretty much as soon as you ring down for either Full or Flank speed, from how much noise the plant and the screws make).  Another factor is that the "effective range" decreases as a cube function for every fathom of depth.  By about 200 feet of water, the d/c will need to be almost in direct contact to have any effect.

An early war "pattern" was an elliptical "horseshoe" of 8 or 10 d/c about 60-75 yards wide and 100-150 yards long (about twice the size of a sub or so).

Now, probably not a good idea to lurk around with a cople of tons of explosives going off  within 150 feet of water depth of your own hull.  Hence the need to put the spurs to the ship and get to full gallop before firign the barrage (the preferred term-of-art).

Actually, the stern racks were easiets for "exploratory" shots while also being most dangerous.  The latter because any uh-oh in the fuzing is detonating a quarter ton of explosive just under your own counter, where the ship's structure must needs be a bit lighter than the rest.

But, the fantail also allows for stowage of a lot more d/c than by the K guns, whic honly have room for 6-8 d/c per launcher.  And a stern rack will easily hold a dozen or more, often with a stowage rack adjacent.

It takes about 15 to 30 minutes for everything to quiet down to start using sonar or hydrophones.  A submaring running on batteries can be very quiet. 

When prosecuting an attack, one often starts with a blank sheet of plotting paper.  You put an "x" down on the suspected location of the target.  This will have a dashed line on the presumed directional vector of the target.  You then chart out an intercept course to the point one expect the target to be by the time you reach it. 

Which is complicated as you start your attack run at Dead Slow to retain the sonar or hydrophone contact.  Also to detect if the target detects your approach, which affects where that dashed line goes from the "x."  It was considered to be good form to make an arced attack as you dow not want to provide a simple torpedo solution for the submarine.

Oh, and your turning radius becomes smaller at speed, so you need to account for that in plotting your own course, especially as that affects where to look for your target.  Which also allows you some level of prediction, as if the target is not where it is supposed to be, you can then postulate on possible locations, knowing the limitations of the target.  But, you are still guessing.

This is one of the reasons for which the Hedghog was considered to be far more successful.  The bombs were cheap and plentful and easier to reload.  They had significant range, too.  They could be launched at lower speed meaning not revealing your attack run to the target.  Also, as they were contact fuzed, any "bang" you heard was likely a successful hit on the sub.  If not as sure a "killing blow" as with an under-the-keel d/c detonation.

This is why the DE and DD/DDE post war saw extensive use of 18" diameter homing torpedos rather than d/c.  And a 10 or 12 mile stand-off range has its adavatages, too.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, August 24, 2024 1:34 PM

I don't want to set out any spoilers here, there's a well known wartime novel where a ship is torpedoed, and with just minutes to go before it sinks, the skipper and first officer race to defuse the depth charges before they all end up in the water together.

Trumpeter got the sheer pretty much looking like it should. 

If/ when I build her, it would be a good application for M22.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Sunday, August 25, 2024 1:46 PM

Hi Bill!

    I was told by a torpedoman that was a fact. If we ever thought we were gonna lose the old girl, one of his guys had to make sure "K" gun supply and load as well as the racks were neutralized or we would be chewed up when she exploded below us!

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Thursday, August 29, 2024 4:45 PM

GMorrison
race to defuse the depth charges before they all end up in the water together.

Makes dramatic reading, but, there ought be a PO/1 at each mount with the depth-setting key; each of whom would know to 'safe' any armed d/c.

Rather more dull reading to know that only the "can" in the launcher is "armed" with a depth setting per SOP.  Stern racks might have more than one 'can' set for a depth what with the overhang and all (and, because, at 20kts you are going 33 feet per second).

In practice, d/c are pretty inert, but they will respond to sympathetic explosions like another d/c going off nearby.

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