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Rigging for Solei Royale

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  • Member since
    August 2004
Rigging for Solei Royale
Posted by Ernie on Saturday, October 2, 2004 12:42 PM
Hey, I bought the Solei Royale from Heller a few months ago, I thought it would be a great project to work on, Ihave been building models for over 20 years but when it comes to the rigging for this thing I'm not sure which references are out there that I should get to help me. I realize there are diffrent styles of these type of ships, and I want my ship to be accurate. I am a perfectionest and just rigging it any old way just won't do any help would be appreciated.please help!Question [?]Question [?]Smile [:)]Smile [:)]
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Saturday, October 2, 2004 6:18 PM
There are two book which I consider to be the best referance for tghis era vessels'.

The Art of Rigging,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486263436/qid=1096759015/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_2_1/104-2827836-9102333

The Lore of Ships by Tre Triclaire (sp)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0831756365/qid=1096759065/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-2827836-9102333?v=glance&s=books

Everything you really ever wanted to know about rigging. Look for the "USED" price they are much cheaper. Hope this helps. I have one of the kits and am itching to start but will wait until I get more time next year.

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, October 4, 2004 2:52 PM
You're quite right in wanting a good source beyond the Heller instruction manual, which is worthless. Among other problems, it provides for no means of attaching the yards to the masts.

Probably the best source for rigging that particular vessel is The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast, by R.C. Anderson. Dr. Anderson was one of the first experts on serious ship modeling; I believe the first edition of the book came out in the 1920s. He later did a revised version, with the title Seventeenth-Century Rigging, but it only covers English ships; you want the original. I believe it's available in a Dover Press paperback reprint for a very reasonable price. I think I've seen it on the book list of Model Expo: <modelexpoonline.com>.

Since you describe yourself as a perfectionist, I think maybe (after a great deal of hesitation) I ought to mention a few things about the Heller Soleil Royal kit. I built it quite a few years back, and I wish I'd done some reading in advance. You may want to stop reading at this point.

The Heller moldmakers of that period (mid- to late 1970s, I believe) were magnificent artisans; the sculptures on the bow and stern of that kit are comparable in quality to those of the finest "Admiralty models." I can't pay a higher compliment than that. The problem is that, though they were great artists, they didn't know enough about ships.

The kit seems to be based on a huge model of Le Soleil Royal in the Musee de la Marine, in Paris. That model (though the Heller folks apparently didn't know it) is unfinished. On the Heller kit there's a huge hole in the knee of the head, between the two big molded rails that support the figurehead. On the Musee de la Marine model it's perfectly obvious that there's supposed to be some sort of carved ornamentation there; if the real ship had a hole in it like that the bow would collapse.

There's another big problem with the stern ornamentation. The Heller designers apparently worked from a side-view drawing that didn't clarify the situation in three dimensions. There are supposed to be a couple of open balconies that, in the kit, aren't there. Again, if you look at a photo of the old model the difference will be horribly obvious.

There are various pieces of evidence that the designers didn't quite understand the basics of naval architecture. The decks, for instance (if I remember correctly) are perfectly flat. They ought to have camber (i.e., be gently arched upward in the middle) - and so should the various rails, hatch coamings, and other features that are attached to them. One of the more amusing goofs concerns the belaying pins. They have sharp points; apparently somebody thought they'd been pounded through the rails.

Most seriously of all, the proportions of the hull are way off. I confess the possibility of such a mistake didn't occur to me as I was working on mine, but as I look at it now (even without a photo of the old model for comparison) it's pretty clear that the hull below the waterline is too small and shallow. If the real ship had looked like that its ability to float would be highly questionable. And if a model company distorted the proportions of an airplane, tank, or car like that it would be laughed out of the industry.

Like I said, I hesitated before typing this. I can testify from experience that the kit builds into a beautiful-looking finished product. But to do it justice will take a great deal of time - and fixing the mistakes would be almost as difficult as working from scratch. And if built out of the box it won't, by most reasonable definitions, be a scale model. It's not for me to tell anybody whether this kit, or any other, is worth building or not, but I do think people are entitled to go into such projects with their eyes open.

Incidentally, the next big ship kit Heller did after that one was the galley Reale. That one, to my eye, is a beauty - and the subsequent H.M.S. Victory is one of the gems of the plastic kit industry. Heller, like most other kit manufacturers, went through some big growing pains.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Monday, October 4, 2004 4:09 PM
JTilley,

Would you happen to know what company bought the "IMAI MODEL COMPANY" I'm trying to find a model of the 1/80th. Chebec for myself and a client. I found them made in Korea (i think) web site but can't translate the price or how to order. Anyboody have a source? Here is the web link

http://www.hobbyzon.com/menu03_plamodel/detail.asp?id=8014&from=list&step=3&cat1=2&cat2=12&cat3=73&cat4=0&list=&olist=&npage=#

97000 = $85.00 US

Thanks
Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, October 4, 2004 10:22 PM
Big Jake -

I haven't seen any Imai kits for a long time. I think you're right: the firm is out of business. I only recall buying one of their large-scale kits: the Cutty Sark. I recall reviewing it for Scale Models, the old British magazine, and describing it as the best Cutty Sark kit on the market. (It had some small errors, but all were easily correctable.)

I know Heller also did a xebec; I don't recall having actually looked inside the box. I think the Russian company called Zvezda, which has been marketing some vaguely familiar looking kits lately, just may have some old Imai molds, but I really don't know. I've also noticed some little 1/350 sailing ship kits in either Academy or Minicraft boxes (the Eagle, the Cutty Sark, and a few others). They look like they may be reissues of the series Imai did back in the 1970s, but I'm not sure.

I don't blame you for being interested in the Imai line. Every kit I saw from that company was pretty nice.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 5:32 PM
So far this week I've lost several bids on the older Imai kits, sometimes they pop up for a decent price sometimes not.

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 6:48 PM
Jake
Contact me I've got three Imai Chebec.I'd be willing to sell one.
Rod
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 9:27 PM
Check out this link.....WOW!

http://www.romaniaksrestoration.com/romaniak.html

At top of the page click on Ship models, then click on the Solei Royal. He mad a waterline from the kit.....Ohohohohohohohohoh
Nice!

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Tuesday, October 5, 2004 10:31 PM
No its actually floating in water. I met him and saw the ship over in Manitowoc Wi.i believe in the early nintys.Its a nice looking model he has a crew on it. He told me then that he had built it to go in water at that time.
One of the members of my model club has the Solei with all the crew ,sails and also build the interior and has it lit so you can see in the stern windows.Both are great models
Rod
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 6:30 AM
Even better!

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 8:49 AM
Beautiful model. He spotted the same goof in the stern galleries that I mentioned earlier - and did a fine job of fixing it. Looks like he also fixed the error in the knee of the head.

He doesn't mention the distorted underwater hull. I may be mistaken about that one, but I don't think so. I guess the fact that he was able to make the model float proves that the proportions aren't completely impossible.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August 2004
Posted by Ernie on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 9:25 AM
Thanks Big Jake, and Jtilley for all the great info. that web-site has great pictures and info. My time has expired here at the library, so I will check it out better tommorow. Thanks again.Big Smile [:D]Big Smile [:D]Big Smile [:D]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 1:30 PM
Hi all,
Need to add that there's a a photo of unfinished model of SOLEIL ROYALE from Musee de la Marine in Souvenirs de Marine by E. Paris (I got German edition).
And there's also there another model of SOLEIL ROYALE from 1700 - completed with rigging. So, Heller's version is probably a mixture of them.

J.
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