Revell Spanish Galleon

Well, generally speaking the fittings that look like triangular deadeyes (with three holes) are correct for shrouds during this general period, and the closed heart-shaped ones for various other parts of the standing rigging (stays, etc.).

I feel really awkward talking about this kit, because, as I've indicated elsewhere in this forum, I have difficulty thinking of it as a scale model. A couple of steps down on the forum contents page is a thread called "Golden Hind?" That thread includes a discussion in which I mentioned what I think of the kit, and another modeler voiced the other side of the issue. I don't want to sound off again about the matter - or downplay the opposing viewpoint. Please take both sides seriously.

The best and most up-to-date discussion of rigging in this period (and everything else regarding sixteenth- and seventeenth-century galleons) is the book Galleon: The Great Ships of the Armada Era, by Peter Kirsch. It contains a set of excellent, detailed drawings, including a fine rigging plan. The book was published a few years ago by the Conway Maritime Press in England, and distributed by the Naval Institute Press in the U.S. I don't know how widely available it is now, but I imagine used copies of it are available on the web.

Here is a cut and paste of the Article I wrote on how to build thr revell Spanish Galleon. I hope this helps. Jake


Historically, one of the most famous types of ships during the Golden Age of Sailing was the Spanish Galleon. The first galleons made their appearance around the middle of the 16th. Century. For nearly a hundred years these popular ships served the needs of merchant services and the Naval services alike.

This article will deal with the building of the Revell Spanish Galleon model #H-400. Revell first produced this kit to go along with the other large ship series all in 1/96th. Scale. Revell was and is considered by many to be the best “ship model” company to date due to their early extensive line and very good details in the molds. Due to low sales in the US, the model was retired in 1975. The molds shipped to Germany where there is a better historical base for this type of vessel. The model was reintroduced / re released to the hobby market in 2001 and sells for a whopping $139.00 retail. However, you can find them a bit cheaper on eBay or at an Internet hobby shop.

The model itself has very little inaccuracies and over all is a big and well detailed kit. Almost every level of builder should get a beautiful model with a bit of care. I’ve broken the review and instructions down as if you were following the kit instructions manual, so if you read along with the review, you should be able to follow the kit inst. booklet as well as my tips and detail info. To make this easy to follow I have listed all the paint color and brands up front so you can decide if you want to use these colors.

I have three rules of painting, always paint the light color first, and if you need to do detail painting in a small area paint the lower most section first also if there is a chance of color “blending” seal the first color with a flat sealer. I have not gone into detail on how to use basic modeling skills, but have listed a few special tools you will find useful in building this model.

Testors: Armor Sand, and Military Brown

Floquil Antique White, Ft. Black, Roof Brown, Rail Brown, Gold, Med. Blue and Tuscan Red

Tamiya: Transparent Yellow and/or blue or green (for use on the gallery windows)

Special use tools: Bend nose tweezers ( for rigging the lines), ACC type (crazy glue for modelers), find steel wool, white glue, bees wax, a-clamps, c-clamps and a “blind mans needle threader”.

Rigging material: Coats and Clark brand thread made for buttons and carpet sewing. But the black, tan and brown colors.

Web Site list: I have listed a few web sites throughout the article so you can fall back on them as reference point and I have made notes when to compare to the “real thing” to help you along the building process.

As soon as you open the kit inst. booklet you are given painting instructions, before you begin following them lets take a look at accuracy.

The Lower Hull: The lower hull of the ships of this period were coated with Tallow, a mixture of grease from animals and horse hair it was off white (just like bacon grease when cold) I use Floquil antique white.. There is no “molded” water line so you have to use a hull line jig or place your tape via eye level based on the drawing. Also you can follow the bottom most rub rail as a guide, either way it is historically correct. The rudder pinion was wrought iron and can be painted black with a rust wash.

The Upper Hull: I painted the main upper section of the hull Floquil rail brown which is a reddish brown that matches the artwork on the box, the cannon doors were painted with roof brown as to contrast with the main color. The railings were painted gold as inst. and the I followed the rest of the inst. as written. However, the chevrons along the sides were usually only used on military vessels and can be eliminated if you wish. If you want to put them on, let the base coat color dry for 24 hours then seal it, paint the stripes with either a free hand method or mask them off which takes a while I promise.

Inboard areas: I painted all inboard bulkheads roof brown, and dry brushed with armor sand.

Guns: Cannons ft. black, carriages rail brown, with black wheels.

Details:

Belaying pin racks - roof brown, pins - amour sand (as)

Eye bolts, Cleats, anchors - ft. black

Anchor stocks - roof brown, with ft. black banding

Boat stocks - roof brown, with (as) dry brush (db)

Main Deck Hatchway - rail brown with as (as - db)

Life Boat - roof brown with (as-db)

Ladders/stairs - roof brown with (db)

Windless, wood parts - roof brown, metal parts black although it’s hard to see

The Deck Sections: The deck sections are well detailed and can be done in such a manner that will bring out the fine grain detail that Revell carved in the mold (it must have cost a lot). First airbrush all deck sections with a coat of ft black, let dry 24 hours then coat the deck sections with a later with armor sand. When dry another 24 hours use the steel wool to “lightly” rub through the AS to show the black paint on the raised highlights of the deck, in the tight areas you will need to use your #11 blade to the same effect., paint the rest of the details in, and your done with them. MAKE SURE to paint the under side of the Gallery decks with the same technique, you can see the decking detail from the rear of the model.

The Masts: The mast of the real ships were made up of several pieces of wood, and then coated with varnish which over time darken the mast to a medium brown shade, I used military brown which is a medium lt. brown and looks very good on the mast against the rest of the hull colors and rigging. You need to take care in assembling the mast as they are kind of out of round, use liquid cement, and work a small area as you go. The edge that stands out a bit can be filed down with a “Flexi-file” or emory board. Any low spots can be filled with modelers putty and re-sanded. Check out photo http://www.hms#8209;victory.com/Foremast.jpg

The Yards: I found the yards to be simple and easy to assemble, you also need to work the ridges out with the files. The yards can be painted the same color at the mast but I chose paint them roof brown to off set them against the mast.

The Mast Tops: I painted them overall rail brown, then painted the top and sides of the mast tops roof brown. Once dry I dry brushed with AS. The timbers that make up the bracing under the mast tops were painted roof brown. The inst. tells you to paint the inside of the “vertical sanctions” black, but my research in the design did not mention anything about being a different color so I left them the base color.

The Windows: In researching the real vessels, the windows came a few different ways, some were clear (poor owners) and some were stained (rich owners). If you choose to have clear windows you will need to remove the “window”. Start sanding the backside of the part where the window is. As you sand you will thin out the plastic until you just have the framing, clean these up with your hobby knife, and after you are through painting, put liquid crystal clear or (white glue) in between the frames to make a window. You can also paint them white but it stands out too much and takes away from the model. If you want stained windows I masked off the inside of the window, painted the parts the base color, let dry and then brushed in the transparent yellow, with the bottom row I used trans. blue to match and tie in with the blue on the bull, then I dry brushed the frames with gold paint.

The rest of the painting instructions can be followed as written in the booklet. You can substitute any color you want for the blue. These vessels were decorated in every possible color combination by the different owners as to be able to tell their ships apart . I liked the blue as it blended well with the gold trim on the railings. I think a med dark green would look good such as Euro dk. green by Testors.

The Construction: The building of the model is pretty straight forward but a few items need to be corrected.

Step 1 The guns are assembled as instructed, but you will notice that the width of the gun pinion just barely reaches the cross channel of the carriage, I glued the guns with a bit of ACC glue to make sure that they did not come lose.

Step 2 I very seldom like to use the plastic stands that come with the models because I feel they are not decorative enough for the model. I use them in the basic construction phase and then transfer the model to the final cradle or stand after completion. I used these stands because of the way the lower keel was too shallow for the normal sanctions I normally use. Because the model was going to be handling a bit, I temporarily glue the stands to a thick piece of cardboard with a very small amount of ACC to hold them in place. When I was finished with the model I simply transferred the model to the wooden base using the same method of gluing with ACC.

Step 3 The booklet they ask you to place the windless, pin rails and the boat cradles on the deck prior to placing the deck in the hull. Do not do this, first place the deck in the hull and glue in place. I also placed the stern of the model into place and glued it to the hull at this step instead of step 5. Once it dries then place the details on the deck. I have broken off small items like these because they got in the way of clamps, rubber bands etc.

Step 4 Now put the deck detail on the deck and place the eye bolts and cleats into place. Before you place the eye bolts into place, you need to clean out the hole before you glue them to the model. Use a small drill bit or a needle reamer to clean out the hole so you can pass the rigging material through without any problems.

Step 5 You can now glue the rudder into place being careful not to get glue on the pinion support. If no one is going to “touch” the model just glue them into position they do not need to move.

Step 6 You can follow step 6 as instructed. Be careful not to break the rear section of the cannons off.

Step 7 READ THIS FIRST BEFORE PROCEEDING. Part number 34 has an exact opposite part that mounts on the other side of the hull. YOU CAN ONLY PLACE ONE SIDE ON THE MODEL AT A TIME. If you think you can glue both sides in place you will not be able to put in part #36 the upper deck because it is wider than the hull piece and slips into the slot and makes up the upper gallery catwalk. Follow the instructions exactly.

Step 8 Notice how the deck fit into the groove. Follow as instructed.

Step 9 You need to drill a small hole in the bottom of part #42 so you can mount a eye bolt into place for a later step which will be explained in step 13. The small boat would have been covered with some sort of tarp. You can make one out of paper with out too much effort, I used a piece of toilet paper folded over to double it’s thickness. I covered the boat with the paper and brushed a little water over the paper so it would lay down and conform to the hull also to soften the paper. Be gentle when brushing the paper, it tears easily. Once you have it in position (don’t worry about the excess it will be removed at a later step. Now spray the paper with hair spray any brand will do, let the first layer dry then give it a second coat. After it’s dry you can cut the paper away from the boat about 3/32" from the top, (just judge it, no reason to pull out a ruler). Once it is dry and trimmed you can paint the paper with a very lt. tan color to replicate sail cloth. Place the boat into position and tie it down.

Step 10 Locate parts # 47 & 52; these are the railings that decorate the upper decks. These parts have locator pins on the bottom but they are not matched to the holes in the deck and will not lay right if you do not remove one pin from either side, on part #47 I left the center pin and removed both outside pins. On part # 52 I removed the one by the stairs. The deck house goes together well but the decorative molding at the bottom of the house does not line up with the side molding, there is no right way of fixing this without causing other problems that show up on the top of the house so glue it together and fill in with a little putty by the bottom. You will notice that the house is just a bit too narrow for the deck opening and leaves a slight gap on one side or the other. Pick a side to glue it too and then once dry use a toothpick and place a small amount of white glue in the area to fill it, then you can come back and paint it when dry. No one can tell.

Step 11 Follow this step as instructed, make sure that you have the railing trimmed in the gold paint before placing them on the model, it’s hard to paint them one in position.

Step12 You can follow this step as instructed also, but nowhere in the instructions does it tell you what color to paint the chain plates. I chose to paint the roof brown to contrast with the hull sides. They also can be painted black as a “tarred” coating to serve as a preservative for the seawater.

Step 13 This is the only step that was grossly wrong in the model not counting the incorrect pulley’s and blocks that came with the kit. Think about this, how did the men raise the anchor? I mean sure they had a capstan to pull in the hawser cable (anchor cable) but how did they manage to rig up (lift) the anchor to the cat-head timber (part #42 step 9). You need to rig up a double block at a later this is why I asked you to insert a eye bolt in the bottom of the parts. The large diameter rope the kit is supplied with is OK to use for the hawser, but you need to stain it a dark brown color. Follow the rigging instr. at http://www.hms#8209;victory.com/anchorsandcables.htm this will give you all the information you can use on this subject

Step 14: This step can be skipped until later but for the sake of completing the steps in order, go ahead and assemble the bowsprit as instructed. Note that the side view does not show the stem brace that the bowsprit (BS) rests on, you must have part #26 from Step 7 in place before you rig the bowsprit gammoning. Look for a brand of thread called Coats and Clark for buttons and carpets. (you cannot break it with your hands, don’t try you’ll only bleed). This thread is perfect for the scale and can be worked with tweezers and a needle threader. The rigging for the BS is made up of a heavier line so look in the package provided for a piece about 12" long and go over the BS and through the slot on the stem make about 56 wraps, pinch the last wrap with an a-clamp, place a small drop of ACC to hold then use a length of black C&C thread to seize the gammoning as shown, glue this with ACC again, snip off the extra line. Remember the lines were neat and laid correctly , no cross overs, or mislaid lines, rigging for ships was very neat, and well ordered. Because in the dead of nigh in a storm every sailor had to know what that line controlled and what it moved not knowing got them killed or worse, crippled.

Let’s stop here and admire your handy work. All of the super structure should be in place and looking SHARP. The next few steps should take you through the mast assembly and the yards assembly.

STEP 2

Building the mast and yards Steps 15 through 17:

The Masts The construction of the masts was straight forward but a bit of attention need to be paid to the alignment of the parts as they seem to be off set from the mold. Because of the close duplication of the parts I separated the parts for the foremast, mainmast, and mizzenmast. I made sure to keep them separate in a zip-lock bag. To break it down for you here are the suit numbers:

Foremast consisted of parts numbers 74-84.

Mainmast consisted of parts numbers 85-95.

Mizzenmast consisted of parts numbers 96-100.

I place the lower mast in place on the model but

DO NOT TIE ANY RIGGING TO THE MAST YET, WE WILL DO THAT LATER!

Major Decision Time

This is where you need to make a major decision. Remember earlier I told you that the kit had “little inaccuracies”. Well the tackle and blocks they provide with the kit are too modern. Look at the “triangle” shaped blocks at the bottom of the plastic dead eyes and shrouds provided these are called “Old Style hearts”. These are correct for the period. You need to decide whether to use the incorrect blocks or replace them with the correct ones. I always fall to the side of appropriateness and decided to use them. Only a few of my friends would even know they were incorrect. You can get correct replacements from Bluejacket ShipCrafters. I personally like dealing with a company called “The Dromedary” in El Paso Texas. The size and amount you need to order are the following. You need two style of blocks:

1st. - Thimble blocks (these are single pulley style) about 50, they cost $1.35 per dozen

2nd. Hearts, in the size 1/8" about 200. Make sure that you order triple they do not make a double. They cost $1.35 per dozen also. Triple can serve as double.

If you choose to use the kit blocks you need to paint them roof brown or black. Use your needle reamers to clean out the rigging holes and tie points. Before beginning I usually use up several hours removing the blocks from the trees, cleaning them up and separating them into small containers to easy the use of the small parts without delaying the rigging action taking place.

THE RIGGING

In steps 15-17 the instructions told you to cut different lengths of rigging material to the various lower masts. I ALWAYS add about 5-7" more to what ever they state, this comes from long experience with rigging and trying to tie a knot with barely enough rigging material.

All lines shown in steps 15-17 are called fore-stays and were not simply “tied” to the mast they were seized just like you did to the anchor cable. You need to use the heavy black thread given with kit. There will be times and places that you simply feel that you cannot seize the lines as would be proper, that’s O.K. just knot them and then wrap the extra string around the other line a few wraps then you can coat if with a bit of white glue, once dry paint it black to replicate tar. There are two types of rigging lines/ropes on a ship:

Standing Rigging: are the lines that stay in the same position and did not get worked by the crew on a daily basis. These lines were the main braces for the mast and ratlines, also these lines were coated with tar to protect them from the elements.

Running Rigging; are the lines that the crew members use to move the yards and sails as well as lift the cargo and boats. These line were used every day and were replaced over the course of every year or so.

Knot tying / making because of the scale of the model, the knots you must use to tie up the blocks and other assemblies can be simple overhand knots. If you use ACC glue a small drop at the cross over point is all it takes. When tying a knot on a block, use an overhand first then give a little pull on the “keep side” of the line this will pull the knot slender then place a drop of ACC at that point. It will look much neater than making a full overhand / granny knot.

Turn to page 1 of the instruction sheet on the rigging.

1 Foremast Forestay The instruction are pretty clear on this part, but when you are rigging the fiddle-block, tie the shortest line first, then proceed to the next longest, this way you can control the tension on the lines. Then tie/seize the forestay to the mast.

2 Mainmast Forestay follow the directions but use the method above to keep control of the line tension.

3. Mizzenmast Forestay Same as above.

The rest of the rigging was straight forward and I could find no problems with any of them so follow in order and you should be O.K. However, in step 8 of the fore braces, they ask you to tie the lines to the railing, this would not have been correct, tie them to the pin rail. Also when ever you see two lines going together you need to make sure that you use the correct blocks.

The Yards You need to do a bit of additional work of rigging the yards that is not shown in the instructions. You need to rig up foot ropes for the sailors to use when working the sails. For some reason this step always seems to be left out of most model kit rigging instructions. To make foot ropes you can tie a piece of string (use black) from one side to the other of the yard using one of the small crew members as a gauge for the correct height. If the yard is a long one you need to tie the rope from the ends to the middle and then tie another one from the middle to the other end, making sure you cross at the middle so the crew member can reach the other foot rope. Check out this site for a good drawing and further info.

http://www.crewdog.net/ship/rose/aloft.html

http://www.crewdog.net/ship/rose/work.html

The Sails and their Rigging:

The plastic sails that were supplied with the kit were in such bad shape they could not be saved.. I have never like the plastic sails that came with any ship model kit I’ve ever bought, I either have a set made by a local seamstress or rig the model in “Port” with the sails removed.

To make a set of sail seems hard but it is not, buy some sail cloth at a local fabric store, trace the sail pattern, and use a #2 pencil to draw the reef lines, so the seamstress can follow and put stitching over the lines you drew, it will look just like the sail were made for the model. I have had many a set of sails made this way. They normally run me about $20.00 a set depending on how many have to be sewn.

If you decide to use the plastic sails I would painted them with a flat water base off white/canvas color, ONLY USE WATER BASE PAINT FOR THIS STEP, the regular solvent type paint will distort them. Follow the instructions for mounting them to the yards, rigging them and you’re DONE.

I had a "Senior Moment" (i.e., stupid memory lapse) a few minutes ago when I typed a reply in this thread. The thread in which we discussed the Revell "Spanish Galleon" a while back was the one titled "Colors for the Seeadler." It's now on the second page of the "Ships" contents. Sorry about that.

I wish I could share Big Jake's enthusiasm for the kit, but I'm afraid I can't. I was interested to read, in the excellent and fascinating book Remembering Revell Model Kits, by Thomas Graham, the following description of the kit: "A robust, twenty-five inch long model. Eagle figurehead, three masts, lower poop deck, row of shields along sides are major differences from H-397 English Man-O-War (1962). Lloyd Jones researched this model at the reference library of MGM movie studio." 'Nuff said.

I was just thinking from now on my research will start out in forum postings before buying a kit, especially when the subject is a sailing ship. My local hobby shop owner told me that the molds for these subjects are passed around like crazy among the various manufacturers. I built Revell's 1:96 Constitution. The Spanish galleon is definetely not up to that standard. When I opened the box I thought about trying to catch the UPS guy and telling him he had the wrong address, but it's already bought and paid for. I'm learning from experience and I can always bash and modify it into a very nice piece of room decor. Thanks Big for the build tips, it's the one I referred to in my first post. A supposedly knowledgeable and skilled ship builder stated that this was a fairly decent representation of a galleon, early 17th century. I guess he was comparing it to the Trumpeter bath toy 1:60 Mayflower. Thanks to everyone for all your views.

A few remarks about this kit.

1. It is a fast builder, and fairly well detailed, and can be turned into a decent "decor" model. I always built it as a "Hollywood" model. It has nice lines and looks like a ship, but again, would never pass the test for historical accuracy.
2. If your looking for historical detail, then build it as an English ship, the hull design doesn't come close to that of a galleon. Galleons are rounded, like Carracks, desinged to hold a lot of cargo and sail like beached whales. This model has the sleek hull with tapered stern, racked masts, and long guns, which the English were noted for. Compare building this model as a Galleon to trying to build the HMS Victory from a East Indianman. Again, the hull style represents English warship design during the period of the Armada. However, I feel research would need to be done on how the jibs and mizzen are set, since I havn't seen any historical references come close to what the model has.

Just my


Scott

Jamnett has summarized my own view of this kit pretty well. It dates from a period (the late seventies) when Revell, like most other American kit manufacturers, was having serious financial troubles. (Olde Tymers like me can remember that the journals at that time were predicting the end of the American plastic scale model. They were almost right.) Apparently Revell was trying to create a product that would sell to people other than scale modelers. I was working in a hobby shop at the time, and I remember the ad that came in the mail: "We've zeroed in on the market with this one: young married couples and interior decorators." Mr. Graham's book seems to confirm my impression. The gentleman he refers to as having done the research for the kit has a fine - and undoubtedly well-deserved - reputation as an aircraft modeler, but it's pretty clear that he got out of his depth in trying to research a ship (in the library of a movie studio).

As we discussed in the "Golden Hind" thread, the amount of genuine, reliable information about sixteenth- and seventeenth-century ships is minimal. The material we do have (as detailed in Mr. Kirsch's book, which I mentioned earlier in this thread) is almost exclusively English and Swedish. (There's a contemporary model, which Mr. Kirsch calls "the Stockholm Galleon.") Frankly that Revell kit, to my eye, looks even less English than Spanish. The underwater hull may be believable (barely), but the upperworks are so badly distorted that the thing looks like a caricature.

A few years before that, Revell did a beautiful reconstruction of the Golden Hind and an excellent scale model of the Mayflower II (on two scales). Airfix also did a Golden Hind (which I haven't seen) and a rather simple but generally good version of Drake's Revenge. And I've heard that the more recent Imai/Aoshima version of the Golden Hind (though I haven't seen it either) is pretty good. Those are the kits I can recommend for anybody wanting to do a plastic model of a ship from that period.

As I've noted in this forum before, the plastic sailing ship kit business is weird. Things go on in it that wouldn't be tolerated by airplane, armor, or car modelers. There are some good kits out there (the Revell Constitution is one of them), but also some downright deceptive traps for the unwary.

I bought the Golden Hind done by Airfix, or was it Heller? Not detailed at all. I would like to find the old Revell Mayflower II or Golden Hind, but I've heard some horror stories about E-bay. I buy resto parts for my '67 Mustang only from commercial vendors for that reason. But, I suppose it is no more of a risk than mail ordering a galleon kit sight unseen! (Insert cuss word here). It was partly nostalgia because I'm an old timer too (christened in '48) and I remember enjoying kits from Revell, Renwal, Jo-Han (cars), and Lindberg. I wasn't thinking about what my quality standards, or lack thereof, were back in the early sixties. I do remember twisting, not cutting, the parts off the sprues, brush painting, and stringy tube cement. Sorry about the dried puddles of Testors on the kitchen table Mom. I am wondering about the Aoshima Golden Hind, or at least the Mega Hobby ad. It states it's 1:70 scale and is 15" in length. That seems bit small for a 1:70 but this period is new territory for me. And $150 a pop seems a tad spendy.

The only kits on this list that I'm familiary with are the Revell Golden Hind (which I remember as being excellent - but that was a long time ago) and the two Revell Mayflowers. Both of them, as I remember (the usual caveat) are well-detailed replicas of the Mayflower II, the reconstruction that's on public exhibition at Plymouth.

The Mayflower II was designed by William Baker, Professor of Naval Architecture at MIT and one of the premier experts of his day (the fifties) in the history of the subject. Some more recent scholars have expressed a few reservations about Baker's work, but to my knowledge nobody's really disproved it - or come up with anything better. The real Mayflower II does suffer from one deliberate inaccuracy: the headroom between the decks is too great. The designers and promoters made the deliberate decision that making twentieth-century tourists stoop over like seventeenth-century Pilgrims just wouldn't be acceptable. I assume the Revell kits reproduce that feature.

The first Revell Mayflower was about 16" long, and was in the old $3.00 series (along with the Constitution, Flying Cloud, Victory, Santa Maria, Bounty, etc.). A couple of years later Revell issued a "quick-build" Mayflower that was somewhat larger - about two feet long. The "quick-build" versions of the Cutty Sark and Constitution came out at about that same time. I bought the "quick-build" Mayflower, and discovered that it was, to all intents and purposes, an enlarged version of the excellent smaller kit. The only pieces that had been omitted, if I remember right, were the blocks and other rigging fittings. A serious scale modeler would want to replace those anyway.

On the basis of my doddery memory I can enthusiastically recommend any of those three Revell kits. I haven't seen the Airfix or Imai ones. Airfix sailing ship kits in general tend to be a little simpler than their Revell counterparts, but generally pretty reliable in their general outlines - good bases for serious models, but requiring a little more work to get there. (Two exceptions: the Airfix Victory has a seriously distorted bow, and the Airfix Bounty has all sorts of major problems.)

If the Imai Golden Hind is 15 inches long and on 1/70 scale, and Morison is right about the real ship's length of 90 feet, that all checks out about right. There are, of course, inevitable problems in such discussions about lengths of ships. Is it the overall length - including the bowsprit? The length of the hull, including the bow and stern overhangs? The length on the main deck? The length on the keel? My guess is that the Imai figure is the total length of the model, and the Morison figure is the overall hull length - but I'm not sure. At any rate, I've read some good things and no bad ones in this forum regarding the Imai kit - but I wouldn't be inclined to lay out that kind of cash without looking at it first.

The Aoshima kit of the Golden Hind is the old molds from Imai.Aoshima bought them in the last couple years.I said earlier on one of the other post.This particular model is based on the ship Golden Hind II reproduction..Which I believe is based in England. Its a very nice model. Its not worth $150.00.The Imai kits come up on EBAY alot and you can pick them up for under $80.00.On EBAY You just have to check the seller out beore you bid first 97% of the time I have no trouble at all.

For my money you can't beat the Imai models for details and buildability.A lot of there ships are based on Bjorn Lundstrom book "The Ship" (which is must have for any modeler).I've build over 10 Imai sailing ships in the last three years.They were excellant to work with.

I choice Imai, Heller, and a couple of Revells 1/96 kits for my first choices in building.Also the 1/60 Mayflower from Trumpeter,and the 1/72 Greek Triera and Roman Warship from Zvezda are pretty good sailin ships models.
Rod

Millard,

NOW you just gotta send pictures of the IMAI build ups, PLEASE
jbgroby@cox.net
Jake

I haven't seen the Imai/Aoshima Golden Hind, but on the basis of the Imai ship kits I have seen I agree with Millard. (That's not easy. I note in his profile that he's a U. of Michigan fan. I went to Ohio State.) Imai's big Cutty Sark gets my vote as the best representation of that ship in kit form - plastic, wood, or otherwise. (It suffers from a couple of amusing little goofs that probably can be blamed on translation - or lack of translation - of the notes on the George Campbell plans from English into Japanese, but it has the potential to be a really spectacular model.) As we discussed on another thread today, some of the Imai 1/350 sailing schoolship kits are being sold now under the Academy label. That was a really nice series, though a bit small for most of us to rig in any detail.

Jtilley I'm sorry to hear about your affliction.HEH! HEH! HEH! Big game this weekend
GO BLUE!!!

Your statement on the Imai Cutty Sark is right on.I build one several years ago and gave it to a friend.I didn't use the kit shrouds and rat lines.I used 1/8 deadeyes from Model Expo and rigged my own it turned out nice.Great deck molds in that kit
.That makes think I should do another for me.I really liked that kit
Rod

Millard - I actually have a high opinion, and pleasant memories, of Ann Arbor. My brother went to grad school there (he wrote a 300-page doctoral dissertation on the reproductive system of a certain 4-inch-long salamander), and I spent a couple of pleasant sessions of several days there doing research of my own at the Clements Library. If it wasn't for the climate, I'd regard Ann Arbor as a near-ideal place to live - the quintessential university town. In thirty years of living in Columbus I got thoroughly sick of OSU football, to the point that I've never been able to enjoy college athletics since. I did make one direct, personal contribution to the OSU football program, though: I single-handedly kept a varsity football player out of the Rose Bowl. (Caught him cheating on a final exam in American history.)

That Imai Cutty Sark was one of the kits I sold to the local Columbus hobby shop when I moved out, back in 1983. I wish I'd kept that one. I don't imagine we'll see it again soon.

Can somebody tell me if the first, smaller scale Revell Mayflower (II) came out in 1966, or was it the larger "quick build" version?
I just noticed an ad on-line for an Aoshima Santa Maria 1:60 scale along with their Golden Hind, both were about $140 retail. I also noticed retail prices vary a lot. One retailer priced the Zvezda sailing ships at about $80 and another one had them for $58.
I would like to say that it pays to shop around and I have picked up very useful info from all of you old salts with the experience. I've been reading these forums a lot. I need to get an extra cushion for the chair at my PC. Thanks for the good advice. I'm trying to get my son at least a little interested in models so he has something creative to do instead of blowing up stuff playing video games. Looks like building models has given way to video games and computers for the young whippers. A nice little local hobby shop just went out of business and no doubt some video game thing will move in. Just heard that Lionel is going bankrupt. Anyone got builder's plans for a time machine?

The bible on the subject, Thomas Graham's Remembering Revell Model Kits, says the first Revell Mayflower kit originally appeared in 1966 with the kit number H-327. My recollection is that it originally appeared in a box with a painting of the ship's starboard side, viewed from aft, with some Pilgrims landing in a small boat in the foreground. As I mentioned before, it was a very detailed replica of the Mayflower II, and came with a large number of rigging blocks and thimbles that encouraged the modeler to spend lots of time on it. In my opinion it was one of Revell's nicest products.

Mr. Graham lists several reissues of the kit, with new numbers. I think there's a mistake in the book, though - the first one I've found in it. The book doesn't seem to acknowledge that there were two Mayflower kits on different scales. It's entirely possible, of course, that my semi-senile memory is the one at fault here, but I'm just as sure as I can be that there were two different sizes of Revell Mayflower.

My recollection is that during the late sixties, in a desperate attempt to attract new folks into sailing ship modeling, Revell issued "simplified" versions of several popular sailing ship kits. They sold, if I remember right, for $6.00 or $7.00 (compared to the $3.00 or $4.00 standard kits and the $10.00 or $12.00 big ones - the Constitution, Cutty Sark, Thermopylae, Alabama, and Kearsarge.) The first two were scaled-down versions of the big Cutty Sark and Constitution kits, with a great deal of simplification in deck details and rigging. Then came the yacht America, which was an entirely new kit. (We discussed it in this forum a couple of weeks ago; it builds into a nice model.) And then came the Mayflower, which was different from the others in that it was scaled UP from a standard, "detailed" kit. It came in a big, flat box with a beautiful picture of the ship in a storm on the front. (The painting is reproduced in Mr. Graham's book.) All the parts appeared to be "pantographed up" from the smaller kit; the only differences were that the "Quick-Build" version was bigger, the blocks and thimbles were omitted, and the instructions showed a highly simplified version of the rigging. I built the bigger one (with deadeyes, blocks, etc. from Model Shipways), and was really pleased with how it came out. It was about two feet long, if I remember correctly.

Mr. Graham gives the scale of all the Revell Mayflower issues as 1/83. That sounds right for the bigger kit, but I think the smaller, original one was more like 1/128 (i.e., 3/32"=1') or thereabouts. The crew figures were about the same size as those of the Bounty and Santa Maria.

The book says the kit was reissued in 1975 under the label "Elizabethan Man-of-War," with the longboat omitted and some guns added. I remember that one, all right - but I think it was the small Mayflower.

Maybe my screwy, burnt-out brain is playing tricks on me here. Can any other Olde Tymers in the forum help me out?