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Best plastic armed sailed ship

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  • Member since
    May 2003
Best plastic armed sailed ship
Posted by lgl007 on Thursday, November 18, 2004 12:30 PM
Hey guys,

Quick question... I watched Master and Commander last night and now I'm in the mood to build an armed sailing ship from the 1800's...

Now, for the big question... what is the best plastic model of such a ship currently available? I mean best fit and details, details, details...

Any help would be tremendously appreciated...

-Greg

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:55 PM
How big do want to go????? I'd say for starters, go with the 22" Revell Constitution. This kit is an in-between model that won't overwhelm you. I do not know if this kit is still in production, but there are a lot of them on ebay for just a few dollars.

Revell Germany also makes a smaller, full hull version of the Constitution and United States (both the same kit, just different decals), however, this kit is small and IMO, very pricey at over $20.

If you search some of the other threads about Master and Commander, you may find us talking about the Lindberg "Pirate Ship". This kit is about 22" long, can be found at any retail outlet or hobby store for arounf $10, and is a little better quality than most Lindberg kits. The reason why we bring up this kit if your looking to build a somewhat representation of the Surprise, is that this kit reflects a French 28 gun Frigate, similar to what the Surprise was in the book.

Far as details, well, Revell, Heller, Airfix, and even the Lindberg kits are good on details. I was not crazy about the Lindbergs stern and tumblehome, it doesn't have any detail. Also, Lindbergs masts are very soft and weak, so I substituted them with wood.

Here is the HMS Undine, aka Lindberg Pirate Ship, from the book "Command a King's Ship"

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:01 PM
Best kit would be Hellers HMS Victory best plastic sailing ship. 1/100 scale 2800 parts before rigging. But a very nice kit. Not to discourge you.To build it correct it will take about two years.Also Revells 1/96 USS Constitution is a good kit good detail.Fact is in Master and Commender the French ship they are chasing is a computer generated version of the Constitution.Both kits will make fine models.
Rod
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 18, 2004 4:28 PM
I second the Heller 1:100 HMS Victory as #1 and Revell 1/96 USS Constitution #2, as the two very best sailing ship models in plastic. I also second the building time (two years and still running on the Constitution for me), but it is absolutely worth it. A lot of help is available here in this forum for both models, and adding the extra details from research also is well worth the effort - both of these models are potentially absolute masterpieces. Rigging rigging rigging...

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 19, 2004 12:16 PM
I agree with these guys about the large Victory and Constitution being the best kits. I finished the 1/96 Constitution a few weeks ago and did the 1/100 Victory a few years ago. Don't have the Victory any more but I have another one coming next week to do again. I don't agree that the 1/100 Victory is a good choice if it is your first sailing ship. I feel it is too big, too many parts, and too much rigging for one's first and the rigging is what makes these beautiful ships so great. I suggest you start with either the smaller scale Constitution or Victory (about 22" long when completed) to get your feet wet so to speak like I did. On the other hand, the 1/96 Constitution is larger and easier to work with and not nearly as complicated as the 1/100 Victory. I am not an expert or master modeler like a lot of these guys on here are. They're models are nothing less than fantastic. My ships are extremely satisfactory to me. I had been looking for the 1966 Aurora kit "Bonhomme Richard" for over 20 years. I finally got one and finished it 2 days ago. The guys on here were a tremendous help as this was my first time using wood for my masts. Good luck on your first sailing ship. You will get hooked and it won't be your last.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, November 19, 2004 2:02 PM
I second the comments from millard (even if he IS from Michigan) and dscoggs. The big Revell Constitution and Heller Victory are fine kits, but they do take a long time - even to build "out of the box." Even an experienced modeler who jumps from one subject area from another is going to encounter a steep "learning curve" - i.e., his skills and knowledge in ship modeling are going to improve in a hurry, and by the time he's two-thirds of the way through the model the things he did in the first few weeks won't look good to him any more.

When I was working in a hobby shop I always used to suggest that new ship modelers start with a relatively small ship in a relatively large scale - something like a pilot boat or fishing schooner - before tackling a frigate, clipper, or ship-of-the-line. Those smaller vessels frequently make beautiful models, and the investment of time that it takes to build them gets paid back in abundance when the modeler takes on a bigger project. Unfortunately there aren't many large-scale plastic kits of small ships. That being the case, dscoggs' suggestion of the smaller, somewhat simplified Revell kits makes about as much sense as anything.

None of us is trying to insult lgl007's intelligence or modeling skills. But we've seen too many people start with time-consuming subjects and leave the hobby because they've gotten discouraged and/or bored with it. I've been building ship models for 48 years, and if I were to take on a car project it wouldn't be one of those enormous Tamiya kits - which I'm sure I'd either give up or mess up. Starting out by investing a few weeks in an attractive, relatively simple subject, before taking up the one that's your real target, makes a great deal of sense.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    May 2003
Posted by lgl007 on Friday, November 19, 2004 4:02 PM
Hey guys... thanks a bunch for all this exquisite information... it's exactly what I've been looking for. Do you guys have pics of your ships posted anywhere? I would love to see what these suckers look like complete... I really don't mind spending 2 years building a model if necessary so I'm looking for something very attractive to put in a display case in the end... so show me those pics please :-)

Scottrc... your pic is too small mate... give me some large versions... it looks spectacular even in this tiny form Wink [;)]

-Greg
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Friday, November 19, 2004 4:07 PM
Oops, sorry, it didn't carry over right. Here is my photo page. My digital camera isn't the best but I try anyway.
http://scott-murray.fotopic.net/

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Friday, November 19, 2004 6:08 PM
Scott
Nice models thanks for posting them. I really enjoy looking at what other modelers are doing.Gives me great ideas and keeps the fire lit.
Rod
  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Saturday, November 20, 2004 1:11 PM
The comparison between Revell's 1/96 USS Constitution and Heller 1/100 HMS Victory is the following:

1. The Heller model clearly involved a lot more reserach, but it was a research of indifferent quality. They manage to intricatly reproduce an amazing quantity of archane details found on most early 19 century ship of the line, but unfortunately many of those details are not accurate to HMS Victory herself. They even manage to reproduce in great accuracy details that are appropriate to a French first rate, but no an English first rate. So you will end up with a amazing, impressive, highly detailed model is generically very appropriate to the age, and which you should be very proud of, were it not for the fact that result is just not very faithful to HMS Victory herself.

2. The Revell Constitution is less well researched. But what research was done was of very high quality. Many aspects of masts and rigging are design as shortcuts and ease of construction. Many of the details that would really make a sailing ship model pop out is not even attempted on this kit. But obvious short cuts aside, the constitution model is faithful to the original ship.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, November 20, 2004 11:31 PM
I haven't built the Heller Victory. I did get a sample of it to review for a magazine a long, long time ago, though, and took a good look at it. I'm very curious regarding the French features Chuck Fan mentioned; I'm not aware of them.

My impression is that the Heller Victory does a reasonable job of representing the ship. One controversial aspect of it concerns the famous "entry ports" on the middle deck. The kit doesn't have them. I'm more than willing to be corrected on the basis of recent research, but I'm inclined to think Heller is right: the entry ports weren't there at the time of Trafalgar. (They don't show up in any of the contemporary paintings - most notably the enormous oil-on-canvas by J.M.W. Turner, who is known to have gone on board the ship shortly after she got back from the battle. Turner wasn't always careful about details, but it seems unlikely that he wouldn't have noticed those entry ports.)

The one major point about the Heller kit that I think deviates significantly from the ship's actual 1805 configuration is the height of the forecastle bulwarks. The kit mimics the real ship's current appearance there, and it's pretty generally recognized that the ship is wrong. The documentary evidence indicates that the bulwarks were raised to shoulder height during the ship's 1802 refit. (Turner's no help here. He inconsiderately draped a downed sail over the forecastle.)

There are a number of other debatable points regarding the Victory's precise appearance at the Battle of Trafalgar (the configuration the Heller kit apparently tries to represent), but Chuck Fan's post is the first reference I've seen to an identifiable French influence on the kit. I'm most interested to hear what he's referring to.

I agree generally with Chuck Fan's appraisal of the Revell Constitution. It's an older kit, based, I believe, on the plans by George Campbell that were commissioned by the Smithsonian for its model. Campbell was trying to establish the ship's 1814 configuration. He relied heavily on the so-called "Isaac Hull model" in the Peabody-Essex Museum. It's pretty crude in many respects, but probably the best clue we have to the ship's appearance during the most famous part of her history. Some good, high-powered research about the Constitution has been done since the kit came out, but to my knowledge the kit still holds up well.

One amusing feature of the Heller Victory: it provides no means whatever for fastening the yards to the masts. I can't think of a single plastic kit that includes authentic parrels for the yards. The Revell Constitution at least has "snap rings" for the yards - not to scale, but better than nothing.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Sunday, November 21, 2004 5:56 AM
Hi Group,

As one who has built the victory 3 times for clients, I can tell you that mounting the yards to the masts are a real B****. Here is how I did it. A small single drop of acc then I wrapped thread around the yard and mast crossing over the yard twice and the mast twice then I wrapped the thread over itself to act as a "sizing". Boy they sure left out a an important part. They could have molded in a fake set of parrells to be glued on the mast behind each yard. Thats one of the reasons I charge $1000.00 oer model.

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Sunday, November 21, 2004 10:30 AM
If a kit dosen't have parrels you can create them.Go to any craft store in there bead area and find the size you need. Some of the Imai models have parrels in the kit . The Catalan comes to mind.By the way Jtilley I'm disappointed by my teams showing yesterday but not down.Theres always next year.
RodSad [:(]Sad [:(]
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, November 21, 2004 10:43 AM
This is just one demonstration what I've said for a long time about the people who designed Heller sailing ship kits: they were (are?) magnificent artisans, but they don't know enough about ships. That a huge, expensive kit like that would not provide any means of attaching the yards to the masts is hard to excuse. I suspect the designers genuinely didn't know how to do it. (They also thought belaying pins had sharp points.)

There's no reason why a set of parrels - working ones - couldn't be manufactured in plastic. To include them would make a great deal more sense than those ridiculous jigs and other gadgets for rigging ratlines. Fortunately parrels aren't really difficult to make from scratch (though if I were building a 1/100 Victory for only $1,000 I probably would go the same route Big Jake did). The rollers can be represented quite effectively by small glass beads (preferably painted, of course), and the ribs can be made out of either wood or plastic strip. I start with a strip of wood or plastic whose width is the same as the parrel rib's height, file the end of it to the shape of the parrel's outside edge, drill the necessary two or three holes in it, and slice it off. (A Northwest Shortlines "Chopper" is great for getting all the ribs the same width.) Then thread the parrel lines through the ribs and rollers, and that's it. Each parrel takes about ten minutes. It's quick and easy, but it doesn't seem like a modeler who's spent upwards of a hundred bucks on the kit should have to do it.

On the other hand, Heller beat Revell on several big points. For one thing, Heller solved the problem of big, hard-to-fill joints in decks. The Heller Victory, with its longitudinal joints that fall on the seams between the planks, is much to be preferred to the Revell Constitution, Cutty Sark, etc., with those awful joints that run athwartships. And with the Victory, Heller (after ignoring the point for many years) discovered deck camber, and provided some "deck beams" to set it. (The one place where they missed the camber, unfortunately, was in the top of the poop skylight, which is molded in clear plastic.)

I think the Heller Victory is a terrific kit. But it does have some problems that, in my opinion, really shouldn't be there.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, November 21, 2004 11:14 AM
Millard - Looks like you and I were typing our last posts at the same time. Regarding the football game - well, what can I say? As I understand it, Michigan is going to the Rose Bowl anyway. I'm happy to be living in a part of the country where (believe it or not) TV didn't carry the Michigan-OSU game yesterday. I did see some of the pregame stuff on, of all places, The Weather Channel. It brought back some memories, most of them unpleasant.

By now I suspect Igl007, who started this thread, wishes he hadn't. He's getting a (probably unwelcome) introduction to the sort of things sailing ship modelers dicker about. Cheer up, lgl007. This segment of the hobby is inhabited by weird people, but most of them are relatively harmless.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by devinj on Sunday, November 21, 2004 8:32 PM
On the subject of the Lindberg Jolly Roger, would that be considered a good beginner kit to practice for the large Revell Constitution? Someone graciously gave me a Revell kit earlier this year (still can't believe it myself; old boxing, great shape), and before I do it, I'd like to cut my teeth on something smaller. If I could make the Lindberg kit into a decent kit, and get some practice, I'd definitely pick one up.

Also, on the Lindberg kit, I've heard that it also is close to a small U.S. Frigate of the late 1700's time frame, maybe the Randolph? Is that true?

Thanks,

-Devin
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, November 21, 2004 9:20 PM
The Lindberg kit in question is a reboxing of the French frigate La Flore. It originally came out in the late sixties; I think the kit may be of European origin, though I'm not sure. It came out at about the same time as a German ship of the line, the Wappen von Hamburg. Both were on about the same scale (as attested by the figures that came with them). The Wappen von Hamburg also has been reboxed, I think with the label "Captain Kidd," or something equally ridiculous.

Both kits actually were quite well detailed for their day. They had full-length gundecks and guns with separate barrels and carriages. Another innovative feature (though I have no idea whether the reboxings have it) was the flexible plastic shroud-and-ratline assemblies which, though nobody would mistake them for real rope, were a step ahead of those awful Revell and Airfix plastic-coated-thread attrocities. I believe at least one other forum reader has used the Flore kit as a basis for an H.M.S. Surprise.

It seems like a shame that this forum has to concentrate so heavily on old, hard-to-find kits. Other than the recent Trumpeter ones, I can't think of a plastic kit we've discussed that isn't at least twenty years old. Guess we're members of a dying breed.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2003
Posted by richter111 on Sunday, November 21, 2004 9:21 PM
Im doing the same thing, cutting my sailing ship skills on the Jolly Roger by Lindberg. By the way its a model of the LaFlore. Hope this helps. Something Ive already learned, paint the decks in two coats of black before you lay down your true deck color. When yoou get you deck color laid in and it has set up for about a week, sand it with a 600-1000 grit sand paper lightly to bring the black "grain out". Looks better that way
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Evil Empire ,Wainwright, AB, Canada
Posted by Strathcona on Monday, November 22, 2004 7:44 PM
Hello!
I watched " Master And Commander " too . I liked it so much , that I bought it on VHS . Then , I went in the basement , and swept the dust , off of my unbuilt , Revell 1/96 Constitution. I normally build armor , but I thought a ship , would be a nice change!
Frank
"PERSEVERANCE"
  • Member since
    May 2003
Posted by lgl007 on Friday, November 26, 2004 9:03 PM
Wow ... there's some really excellent information and history being discussed here... thank you very much, all of you, for the great information. Anyone have any nice close up pics of these wonderful ships?

Big Jake... I would love to see pics of your $1,000 creations... please... purdy please Big Smile [:D]

Thanks all...

-Greg
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 4:02 PM
My sons and I also got motivated to build an HMS Surprise-type ship after seeing Master and Commander. We had no clue where to look, but happily, quickly found the Lindberg reissue of La Flore in a local Hobby Store for about $12. After spending hours on the internet looking for a closer fit, we have found nothing closer to the movie's HMS Surprise, including among the high-end Heller kits. We are learning to do full rigging, and to replace the plastic sails with fine-weave (eg, linen) cloth sails. You can get the cloth sails to take on the contour of the plastic sails by cutting out a piece to fit over the plastic sail, impregnating the cloth completely with diluted Elmer's glue while its on the plastic sail, and blow drying it, peeling it off and blow-drying the back. Then you can "bend it to the mast", and sew on the clew lines, tac lines, etc, like a real sail. We've done the Lindberg Wappen von Hamburg, and like it even better.
  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Nashville, TN
Posted by Cudamav on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 7:03 PM
This is off topic a bit, but along the same lines. I have been in the mood to build a model of the Black Pearl since I saw the movie. Does anyone know of a model that is out that resembles it? From reading the responses to this post, you are the guys that could answer this for me. The surprise is another I want to build and the information here is very helpful
~Jason "Not all who wander are lost"
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, December 19, 2004 10:35 AM
I can think of one plastic British frigate kit. Many years ago Airfix did an H.M.S. Shannon. It was about five inches long, consisted of about twenty pieces, and came in two versions: with and without a clear plastic "bottle." It was a waterline model, with a rather nice plastic "sea" base. The "shrouds and ratlines" were printed in black ink on sheets of thin clear plastic, and had to be cut out. (Pretty hokey, but not so bad if the light was coming from the right direction.) The "unbottled" kit came in a plastic bag, and the "flags" were printed in color on the instruction sheet. I haven't seen it for at least thirty years.

If you don't mind working on a very small scale (by sailing ship standards), the range of white metal kits from the British manufacturer Skytrex is very much worth checking out. In addition to some WWII naval vessels the firm make a series of sailing warships in 1/700 scale, with cast metal hulls and masts and photo-etched sails and shroud/ratline assemblies. The scale makes them tiny (I think most of the purchasers are wargamers), but the detail crammed into those castings is really remarkable. Their H.M.S. Victory is on my disgustingly long list of Kits I'm Gonna Build One Of These Days. (To my knowledge it's the only Victory kit that's got the forecastle bulwarks right.) Come to think of it, "Pirates of the Caribbean" is in a similar category. My kids gave me the DVD for Christmas last year, and I haven't gotten around to watching it. Geez, now I feel awful.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 4, 2005 10:19 PM
Hi out there, been reading all of your letters, gotta tell you, back when the earth was young I got the USS Constitution 1-96 and started to put her together, well a move across the country with a unproperly protected quarter finished ship, sad to say...did her in. Well all these years later, I found her again...thanks to your forum...I am not quite as scared as I was when I open this box again. Thanks for all the great info. If all goes well, gonna try something on the order of HMS Victory (maybe, can't decide). If any parts get lost, is there anywhere to get replacements? i.e. half a cannon. Thank you, and wish me luck
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, September 5, 2005 10:34 PM
The source for replacement parts depends on the kit manufacturer. (If you buy from a local dealer you may be able to talk him into opening another kit and scrounging the part you need, but it's doubtful. And internet/mail order firms usually don't offer such service - though there may be exceptions.) In most cases you'll probably have to deal directly with the manufacturer.

The big companies, such as Revell and Airfix, seem to have been doing pretty well in the customer service department lately. (I ordered a replacement part from Airfix a while back and got it - despite the transatlantic delivery problem - in a couple of weeks, along with a nice covering letter from a genuine human being.) If I remember correctly, Revell/Monogram's website has an "Order Replacement Parts" function.

The problem you're likely to run into is that so many of the best plastic sailing ship kits are out of production. None of the big companies has released a genuinely new one in about twenty years. Revell, for instance, used to have more than a dozen sailing ships in its catalog - including some of the most sophisticated plastic kits ever made. The current Revell/Monogram catalog contains two sailing ships: two versions of the U.S.S. Constitution, one fifty years old and the other forty. The Revell-Germany catalog (for which there's a link on the Revell/Monogram website) has a few more - but I have no idea how good the German branch of the company is at parts replacement.

There are four plastic H.M.S. Victory kits currently on the market. The smallest is from Airfix. It's about five inches long, and at least forty-five years old - hard to take seriously as a scale model. Next in size is the Revell kit, originally released in 1959. (It's not being marketed by Revell/Monogram, but is in the current Revell-Germany catalog; decent American hobby shops stock it, or can get it via special order.) It's a nice kit for its age and size (about 18" long). In my personal opinion it is, in fact, a more accurate and marginally more detailed kit than the slightly larger Airfix version, which dates from the late 1960s and is about 20" long. That kit has some things to recommend it, but to my eye it's wrecked by the fact that its bow is seriously distorted.

The granddaddy of all plastic Victory kits is the 1/100-scale one originally issued by Heller, of France, in about 1977. It's a little over 3' long, and arguably the most sophisticated kit yet produced by the plastic kit industry. It does have some problems in terms of accuracy, but those problems are pretty minor. (We've discussed some of them - notably the entry ports, the height of the forecastle bulwarks, and the absence of parrels for the yards - earlier in this thread.)

The kit's biggest weakness, perhaps, is an unbelievably wretched set of English-language instructions. It would be difficult if not impossible to build this kit without recourse to outside references. (Fortunately there are quite a few of them.) It is, in any case, a challenging project - in terms of difficulty, time, and expense. To do it right would require quite a few dollars' worth of aftermarket parts (blocks, deadeyes, etc.) or a great deal of scratchbuilding. But those who've finished it will tell you the results are worth it. The kit has recently been reissued under the Airfix label. (Airfix and Heller merged a few years ago.)

If you're relatively new to sailing ship models and want to try a Victory, my recommendation, for what little it's worth, is to start with the Revell kit. It's a basically sound, accurate reproduction of a beautiful and extremely important ship.

Hope this helps a little. Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: 29° 58' N 95° 21' W
Posted by seasick on Monday, September 5, 2005 11:42 PM
"Sailed fighting ship", since the conning tower part of the submarine is called "the sail" can I add submarine kits to this string?????Wink [;)]Wink [;)]Mischief [:-,]Propeller [8-]Whistling [:-^]Big Smile [:D]

Chasing the ultimate build.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 6, 2005 2:59 PM
Is there an online review of the Jolly Roger to include kit components? Wish to send it as a gift to a very smart six year old but prefer to ensure it is not overly complex for a very young and first time builder.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Tuesday, September 6, 2005 7:50 PM
If you're looking for a simple kit for a youngster, I'd recommend the small Lindberg kits, such as the "brig of War". These are old Pyro models, not particularly accurate, perhaps, but they look good. I built a number of them as a youngster (in the original Pyro boxings) and remember the kits were pretty easy to build.

-Bill

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Tuesday, September 6, 2005 8:02 PM
Going back to your original question, and following up on jtilley's excellent advice to go with a larger model of a smaller ship, I'd recommend another old Pyro kit-- the Lindberg "War of Independence Schooner". Like most current Lindberg kits, the name and packaging are bogus. The kit is really a model of a type of topsail schooner called the "Baltimore Clipper".
While the kit is really a model of an 1830s US Revenue Cutter, it could be used as the basis for a number of models- warship or Privateer.

The schooner rig will require many of the same skills needed to build a big Constitution or Victory, but you won't need to do it so many times. (Rig 6 cannnons instead of 50 or 100; six sails instead of 20 or more...)

-Bill

Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

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