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Durabilty of plastic glue - or: does you ship brake apart when time passes on?

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Durabilty of plastic glue - or: does you ship brake apart when time passes on?
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 20, 2004 4:28 AM
Hi:

Are there any figures on durabilty of plastic glue in ship modeling?

Do you solely build your ship models based on this liquid specific plastic glue?

I am in the process of building the Pinta from Heller. However, I have experimented with super-glue, 2-component-epoxy-glue and that Revell "specific plastic glue".

However, it seems none of them can cope well with the following kind of joints:

| part_perpendicual_to_surface
------------------- part_surface

What kind of glue do you use for such kind of joints?

How do you safely fix belaying pins? In wood ship model building I have often used additional rivets for that joints because later on on rigging they undergo some stress.

Regards,
Katzennahrung
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: ON canada
Posted by flaver on Monday, December 20, 2004 7:16 AM
Umm, I'm not sure what a belaying pin is so please excuse my ignorance, the glues I use have no problems over time, as they melt the joints together. I use the Humbrol Precision Poly, it comes in a blue container with a needle for application, it's fairly thin so it runs into seams.

The Tamiya glue which is much thicker and comes in a glass bottle with a brush for the applicator is pretty strong.

I use Cyanoacrylate (superglue) for gluing non plastic parts together, so photo etch to plastic, wire, string etc... to the plastic. I have tried the store bought "superglue" but it does not seem to be very good for modelling. You should try something like Insta-Cure+ they have a few different ones, thick, thin, fast curing, etc. I generally use the 5-15sec gap filling type.

And sometimes I use no glue at all and melt parts together with heat when the application calls for it

I have only used 2 part epoxy when repairing rc cars and boats as they go under alot more stress than a static models would sitting on a shelf.

So far I have never had a model fall apart due to time.

I would stay away from glues such as Testors basic glues as they do not melt parts together. Besides it's non-toxic and what fun is that :)
  • Member since
    November 2005
Weathering is a must in plastic sailing ship modeling?
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, December 20, 2004 8:10 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by flaver

Umm, I'm not sure what a belaying pin is so please excuse my ignorance, the glues
So far I have never had a model fall apart due to time.


Hello:

I think I have got a similar glue as you are refering to. My Revell glue features a needle to. If I get the chance I will try to get somehwere that Humbrol glue.

When you apply that plastic glue do you press the two parts tightly together for a couple of seconds - or do do simply put one piece on the other and let the glue dry eventually? I ask that because I made the experience when trying to press the two parts for some seconds they often slip away under my fingers; so if the glue will also do good without pressing that would be better for me.

Why I asked that kind of "stability question". Someone mentioned on the Seaways Ship Modeling List that plastic will not endure over a long time. He says that the only valid figure actually is to assume that plastic will do good in a trash can as opposed to model ships made of wood which haven been built over some 300 years ago and have been still "on life".

Surely, if my ships will endure 20 years I think that is okay.

Maybe another good safety-option actually is to have a finish applied to painted plastic and that will ensure that plastic and the glued joints will not undergo quickly some chemical reactions over time.

Regards,
Katzennahrung (alias 'food for cats')
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, December 20, 2004 8:27 AM
I have a few models over 30 years old that were glued with the old Testors and Dupont Dime Store stuff, still holding together.

Ships usually break apart over time by dropping them, having the signifigant other dust around them, or from the feline trying to share the same shelf with them.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, December 20, 2004 11:45 AM
Adhesives made for plastic models generally work in two slightly different ways. The thin liquids (applied by brush) are simply solvents; they dissolve the surface of the plastic. When the adjoining pieces are squeezed together the softened plastic intermingles; the solvent then evaporates. So there's no question of longevity as far as the adhesive itself is concerned. It's gone within a few minutes. If the plastic parts have been squished together sufficiently, the joint should last indefinitely.

The thicker adhesives (generally in tubes, though I think some of the bottled varieties may work this way too) also dissolve the surface of the plastic, but don't evaporate. Instead, the cement sort of "soaks into" the adjoining parts and hardens into a thin (we hope) permanent membrane between them.

I don't know of any reliable scientific data on the longevity of such adhesives. (I question whether such data exists; the stuff hasn't been around long enough.) I can, however, provide a little anecdotal evidence.

I have a model of H.M.S. Bounty, based on the Revell kit, that I built in the late 1970s. I modified it extensively (seven of the kit parts survived), using basswood, boxwood, degame wood, brass, copper, nickel-chromium wire, sheet styrene, silk thread, britannia metal, and probably some other materials that I don't remember. The adhesives I used on it included Revell tube-type cement (no longer available), Testor's liquid cement, 5-minute epoxy, cyano-acrylate "super glue" (which was just appearing in the stores at that time), Franklin Titebond (wood-to-wood joints only), Elmer's Glue-All, and DuPont contact cement (for the copper sheathing). The model looks as good as it did 25 years ago (thanks largely to its plexiglas case), and not a single one of the glue joints has shown any sign of coming loose.

The only adhesive I avoid is lead-based solder. Lead, as you probably know, is one of the least stable substances around. It used to be a common material for castings supplied in ship model kits, but nowadays it's virtually disappeared. It used to be hard to find lead-free solder, but recent government safety regulations have led the manufacturers to sell lots of it. Hardware stores, home centers, and Radio Shacks all stock solder that works well for model building.

Modern adhesives, properly used, seem to be remarkably durable. I don't think there's much to worry about on that score.

Regarding belaying pins - I imagine what you're talking about is the pinrail (the horizontal piece that holds the pins themselves). Pinrails are, indeed, an Achilles heel of sailing ship modeling. I suggest two tricks. One - drill two or three horizontal holes through the ship's bulwark and into the back of the pinrail. Then shove a piece of wire, with a drop of "superglue" on its end, into the hole and cut the wire off flush. Two - hide a small, square strip of basswood or styrene under the pinrail, at the joint with the bulwark. Even a 1/16" square strip will substantially increase the surface area for the adhesive, and the support will be invisible from an normal viewing angle.

Hope this helps.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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