real cloth sails?...

Hmmm...well...not in this lifetime.

When I was working at the Mariners' Museum (Newport News, Virginia) I made it a project to try to acquire a McNarry model for the collection.  Mr. McNarry and I had a rather lengthy and cordial correspondence (he's actually quite a nice man); unfortunately his "major" models were (a) hard to find (he'd slowed down his building pace by then, so most of the "major" ones were already in the hands of collectors) and (b) beyond the museum's budget.  (It looks like the standard prices of McNarry models have at least doubled since then - but that was almost thirty years ago.)  I did manage to talk the museum into buying a McNarry model of a Thames ceremonial barge (the case is about six inches long), and to borrow several of his models temporarily.  Three or four of them came from a private collector in Philadelphia, and we got a long-term loan of one of his magnificent 1/192 Constitutions from the Smithsonian.  (Driving from Washington to Newport News with that thing in the back of the museum's station wagon was one of the more neurotic experiences of my life.) 

Just a few years ago the North Carolina Maritime Museum (the one I visit most frequently these days) scored a coup when a private collector donated a McNarry model of a Civil War blockade runner.  It is, in modeling terms, a masterpiece.  Unfortunately the average museum visitor has trouble appreciating it, for the simple reason that it's so small.

jtilley wrote:

The big problem I've always had with "set," or "billowing," sails is that a real sail is a complicated object made out of many pieces, and it seems next to impossible to replicate its appearance on any but very large and very small scales.  (For the latter, here's some inspiration:  http://www.donaldmcnarryshipmodels.com/ .  Mr. McNarry works on scales from 1/192 down.  WARNING:  close scrutiny of his models may make you decide to give up.)

As a matter of interest John, two of Donald McNarry's models, The Alabama and Kearsage 1" = 16' scale, are up for auction in London on 29 April, by Maritime Models.

The guide price for each is £26 - £28,000, fancy making a bid?

Here's the link http://www.charlesmillerltd.com/

The big problem I've always had with "set," or "billowing," sails is that a real sail is a complicated object made out of many pieces, and it seems next to impossible to replicate its appearance on any but very large and very small scales.  (For the latter, here's some inspiration:  http://www.donaldmcnarryshipmodels.com/ .  Mr. McNarry works on scales from 1/192 down.  WARNING:  close scrutiny of his models may make you decide to give up.)

The basic shape of a sail is made up of many strips of canvas, each about two feet wide, which overlap each other at the edges.  (A full set of sails for a good-sized square-rigged ship contains hundreds of pieces of canvas.  Maybe close to a thousand.)  Many additional pieces of cloth of varying thicknesses - reef bands, head linings, leech linings, bunt linings, etc., etc. - are stitched to it.  Pieces of rope and, from the mid-nineteenth-century onward, iron fittings are attached to it in various ways. 

On a model with furled sails most of that stuff can safely be ignored, or faked in one way or another.  But when the sails are set, those items are pretty conspicuous - especially if the light is shining from behind the sail.  Then the thicker portions (i.e., the narrow strips where the individual cloths overlap) look darker than the rest.  Another phenomenon:  opaque items that are behind the sail when it's backlit show up on the surface of the sail as silhouettes.  (Watch the movie "Master and Commander" to see what I'm talking about.  Especially the scene near the beginning where the crew of the Surprise is repairing battle damage, and the rigging is full of people - and backlit.) 

If I can ever figure out a way to reproduce all that in a model I'll give it a shot.  Until then, I'll stick with furled sails - or bare yards.

enemeink wrote:

2 years later and lets see if there are new ideas about..... I'll add that i've come across a method of using the vac-formed sails as molds to make paper sails. I'm going to give this a try over the weekend.

I've tried this method awhile back with satisfactory results using tissue paper. It is a tedous proccess though if your looking to display with the sails fully set.....good luck.

Michael

2 years later and lets see if there are new ideas about.....

I'll add that i've come across a method of using the vac-formed sails as molds to make paper sails. I'm going to give this a try over the weekend.

For Old MacDonald; this reply is to move this topic forward.  It seems to have been pretty well analyzed and these posts may be of some help.

Best,

Ron

That would be great.

The only problem is that I want my pics of my Sanat Maria and Pamir sticky also. Unfair.

Just kiddin. gree with Lufbery., this should be made sticky as well as a few other I might add.

Robert

      The sails I've done for 1:87 scale ships, have been furled. I start with facial tissue, and separate the plys. With a single ply, I cut a full size sail, and lay it out on the kitchen counter. The tissue is then sprayed with water. Using a metal straightedge, from the bottom up, gently push the "sail" into a bundle. While still wet, pick up the bundle and lash it in place on the boom, or spar, or, in the case of a headsail, pile on deck, or lash to the sprit.

   When dry, the "sails can be stained an appropriate color, and left to dry. The last step is water/ white glue/ detergent (wetting agent) mix, to solidify the sail bundle in place. If you want, the cringles for halyards, outhauls etc. can be carefully pulled free of the bundle, and after drying can be reinforced with paper. After the glue mix has dried, sheets, and halyards can be attached at the cringles. The same can be done for slab lines and buntlines on square sails.

Pete

QUOTE: Originally posted by jtilley Can't comment; I'm not familiar with the term. What's plastic foil?