U-223 configuration, March 1944

Jeff,

Speaking of S-boats, saw yours on Mr. Nuttall's site... very nice.

Thanks again Jeff,

Hmm... 2006. It'll probaly take me that long to make the conversions. Maybe I'll just go with U-589 on this build and put the Flakvielring on my Schnellboot. Straightforward SOB build for U-589... just research Arctic camoflauge and upgrade details.

There's little information as to what boats received Flakvierlings, unless you have a photo, and there's less information about when boats with quad 20mm switched to the 37mm. Obviously, it would have been done between patrols during refit.

At this point in time, there is no Turm IV conversion available, although Nautilus Models has indicated they will be releasing one this year. I've also heard rumors eminating from Germany that Revell is doing a Turm IV late war Type VIIC, but that won't be available until 2006.

Regards,

Jeff

Thanks Jeff,

I've found a couple of references with some info, but they raise more questions...

U-223 was severely damaged by ramming in May 1943. She was subsequently rebuilt in St. Nazaire and returned to service in September 1943.

According to Robert Stern's book, "On 30 June 1943, he ordered that no boat was to leave on patrol that hadn't been fitted with Turm 4, including the Flakvierling" (The FlakVierling being an interim measure until the bugs were worked out of the 37mm).

According to Bernard Edwards' book, U-223 was equiped with a quad 20mm on the lower platform and a twin 20 on the upper on her first patrol in January 1943.

It seems to me that the presence of a Turm IV with a quad 20 (or single 37) was likely to have been in place when U-223 fought its last battle in March 1944. (Though I'm not sure how likely it is that she was sent out with Turm IV so early in 1943... moot point I guess since I'm interested in 1944).

Would the quad 20's get replaced by a single 37mm at the first opportunity? How big of a job would the swap be?

How did the naval FlakVierling mounts differ from the land mounts? (I found an armor kit with a 1/72 quad 20).

How would the 88mm deck gun mounting be closed over from a retrofit?

Thanks, I appreciate all the help from folks on these forums. I usually focus on researching 18th century subjects for paintings and articles and have had little time until now (retired in December) for actual modeling. A friend gave me the RoG U-Boat (he got frustrated waiting for his to be delivered by mail, and snatched up the first one to appear at the local hobby shop... of course the mail order arrived the next day)

My uncle, by marriage, was Capt. "Beaky" Armstrong, CO of the Laforey when she and U-223 fought it out to the end. I have been researching and ordering kits of his commands (Wren, Maori, Onslow, coastal forces MTBs and Laforey) and significant opponents (Bismark, FW-200C, He-111 torpedo carrier, Do-17 missile carrier, and two U-Boats, U-589 and U-223)

The RoG U-boat and all the internet traffic have made it my first priority build... which leads me to a more pragmatic quesion..

Is there an aftermarket 1/72 Turm IV conning tower available? It might be a bit of a challenge at my skill level to scratch build one...

Thanks, again

Alan

I'm not 110% sure (about 95% confident), but she would have most likely had a Turm IV with 37mm and twin 20mm C30 mounts by March of '44. Her cable cutter would be long gone, as would her deck gun, and she would most likely have the large housing on the port side for the radar detection array.

As to what array she was carrying, I don't know...she also did not get a schnorchel, so you're lucky in that regard. U-486 did receive a schnorchel in October of 44. Donitz ordered all boats to be fitted with Schnorchels in April-May of '44, and by then U-223 had already been lost. Still, even by D-Day only about half of the Biscay boats had received them. U-223 was operating from Toulon at the time of her loss.

Perhaps Doug can chime in on her color scheme...but that's about all I know on that particular boat.

Regards,

Jeff