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There are still newcomers...

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  • Member since
    November 2005
There are still newcomers...
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 5, 2005 12:46 PM
Hi there,

while doing some www-research I found this forum and thought a) this is just the right place for me, and b) after reading several threads: you should know there's still offspring around Smile [:)]

I recently finished my first sailship (I don't think that what I did when I was 15 years old can be counted), a Revell USS Constitution. Kit number is 5600 and I am not sure about the scale, but I think it is about 1/110 - it has only five open gunports each side on the battery deck (which is only 1/3 of the ship's length). What brings me to my first question: does anybody know the exact scale?

I am another one of those people who saw Master and Commander in the cinema, and then thought "hey, didn't I like sailships when I was a kid - and didn't I always want to build one?" So the next step was programed: it had to be one of those big American frigates. When I found the kit in a nearby Toys'R'Us, there was no more stopping me Big Smile [:D]

As I said, the Constitution is now finished. I build her "out of the box", although I tried to add some details and altered some details on the rigging after reading the New Vanguard book "American heavy frigates 1794-1826". I also tried to give the model a weathered look, and worked on the plastic sails to add some "motion". What brings me to my next questions: I would like to add more "live" in the ship, with crewmembers performing some action, and a base with water. Are there any figures available from stock somewhere (there is the Revell Bounty with crew members in 1:110...)? Any ideas how to build them? Has anybody ever tried to bring a full-hull-model "in" the water without cutting the hull at the water line?

I have just started with a new project: the 1:150 Heller "Le Superbe", a French 74-gun ship-of-the-line. Originally I was looking for another frigate ("La belle poule" in 1:200, because she would be a great companion for the "Royal Louis" of the same scale - I would love to build that diorama...), but a) I could not find one, and b) with the scale of "Le Superbe" I think it might be easier to crew her - the N scale for miniature trains is 1:160...

Hey, that's all for today - just wanted to introduce myself before raising my questions Blush [:I]

Landschrabbler
  • Member since
    November 2003
Posted by richter111 on Saturday, March 5, 2005 12:57 PM
Greetings

I built a deep water once and sunk the completed model in it without cutting the hull. Theres a fellow on www.modewarships.com that cuts out the hull shapes and sets the ship in the resulting hold, the "sea" snuggles up against the hole, looks realistic tho so hes def. on to something.

WELCOME ABOARD!

Ric
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, March 5, 2005 5:58 PM
I suspect the Revell Germany website may give the "official" scale of that Constitution kit - but I'd take that with a grain of salt. The best way to figure it out is to get hold of a set of plans for the real ship (e.g., the ones in Howard I. Chapelle's History of the American Sailing Navy. Reliable plans of the Constution are pretty common; if you don't have any of those books yourself, the local public library probably can help. Measure the length of some prominent, easily-measured part of the ship (e.g., the keel), and multiply by the scale of the drawing to get the full-size length. Divide that figure by the length of the same part on your model, and you've got the scale.

Don't be surprised if you get slightly different figures depending on which part of the ship you measure. That's a fact of life in the plastic kit industry.

If it does come out to be in the neighborhood of 1/110 (which does sound about right to me), there are indeed several other kits that can provide figures for it. Revell's ancient Bounty and Santa Maria have five and seven, respectively (with some duplication, and a Spanish Conquistadore type with a helmet and breastplate). The old Airfix Endeavor has five (including one with a peg leg). And, surprisingly, the old Revell harbor tug Long Beach has three. The latter kit is currently being marketed by Revell Germany under the generic label "Harbor Tug Boat," with the name "Lucky XI" on the bow.

Hope this helps a little. Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Sunday, March 6, 2005 11:17 AM
Welcome to our group.The Model you built is actally closer to 1/225 scale if any.When the model first came out years ago it was considered box scale. other words the model company made the model to fit a certain box.

In the April edition of Fine Scale Modeler there's a great article by JohnT. Leyland on doing a waterline with a full hulled ship.This might be helpful to you.
I 've used 2" styrofoam in the past stacking it as deep as you need than just carve out for your hull. than I use acrylic gel for the water.

For figures on your ship you might try N scale railroad figure they may be the closest.Good luck
Rod
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, March 6, 2005 12:23 PM
Millard - I think you and landschrabbler may be talking about two different kits. Remember that Revell and Monogram combined have released at least five Constitution kits. (My source for most of this is Thomas Graham's most interesting book, Remembering Revell Model Kits.)

1. A tiny one that Gowland Creations turned over to Revell in 1954. It was sold in two versions, with and without a plastic bottle.

2. The old Revell one that so many of us used to cut our teeth in the fifties and sixties. It originally appeared in 1956, molded in two colors, black and tan. It depicted (more or less) the ship as she appeared in the 1830s, with the second of her two Andrew Jackson figureheads. Mr. Graham gives the scale as 1/192. The kit, according to Mr. Graham, was reissued in 1968, 1973, and 1977. The book only goes up to 1979; I think the kit's been issued at least twice since then. I'm pretty sure the smaller of the two kits in the current Revell-Monogram catalog is this one.

3. One of the best plastic sailing ship kits ever: the three-foot long Revell kit. It's usually described as being on 1/96 scale, but Mr. Graham lists it as 1/108. (I suspect he's right, but I haven't taken any measurements of the kit myself.) It's based on a larger model commissioned a few years earlier by the Smithsonian, and does a pretty good job of representing the ship as she appeared in about 1814. The kit originally appeared in 1965, and was reissued in 1967 (with the addition of those hideous vacuum-formed "sails"), 1968, 1977, and various times since. It also made a brief appearance, with a few extra parts, as the U.S.S. United States in 1978. It's still on the market.

4. This one's a little confusing; I think Mr. Graham's book may contain a mistake about it. In the seventies, in an effort to stave off the financial disaster that was threatening the plastic kit industry, Revell issued a small series of sailing ships labeled "Quick-Build." They sold for about $6.00 or $7.00, and, with one exception (the yacht America), were based on previously-released kits. They were somewhere between 18 inches and two feet long, and featured such things as one-piece decks and snap-on yards. Two of them were the Cutty Sark and the Constitution. Mr. Graham gives the "Quick-Build" Constitution's scale as 1/159; my recollection is that it was a bigger than that. It was a scaled-down version of the big kit - i.e., it represented the ship's 1814 configuration. On the basis of landschrabbler's description, I think this may be the kit he has. (His has a gundeck in the waist, and only the midships gunports are open. The old 1956 kit had no gundeck; all the ports were open, but the guns sat on little shelves molded inside the hull halves. The kit number landschrabbler lists doesn't match Mr. Graham's book, but that only suggests that it's a reissue released after 1979.)

5. A kit that Monogram released sometime in the mid- to late seventies. (Here I'm relying on my highly defective memory of the days when I worked in a hobby shop and had to sell such things.) This one also was intended to appeal to beginners. It was considerably smaller than the Revell "Quick-Build" kit. It had a one-piece hull ("to avoid problems of cementing hull halves together," heaven help us), and I believe the yards were molded integrally with the masts. Mercifully it wasn't around for long. I've gotten some hints elsewhere in this forum that Imai may have sold the same kit for a while.

As a matter of fact there was yet another Revell Constitution - an odd...thing...that the company called "U.S.S. Constitution Wall Plaque." It was another scaled-down rendition of the big kit (1814 configuration), with part of the hull removed and a "plaque" with an "authentic old map" on it to serve as a background. The modeler was supposed to paint the...thing...with an enclosed bottle of "gold antiquing fluid." My recollection of this desperate merchandising stunt is mercifully vague. According to Mr. Graham, it also victimized the Cutty Sark and that awful other...thing...that Revell called a "Spanish galleon."

I think (I can't claim to be sure) the two Constitutions in the current Revell-Monogram U.S.A. catalog (the only sailing ships in it - to accompany the huge total of five powered vessels) are Nos. 2 and 3. And it sounds to me as though landschrabbler has no. 4.

Just to make things a bit more confusing, the Revell Germany online catalog lists a 1/96 Constitution and a 1/150 U.S.S. United States, the latter having a one-piece hull. Sounds like it may be a reboxing of the old Monogram Constitution.

There will be a short quiz on all this tomorrow.

Landschrabbler - if you haven't either gone crosseyed or stopped reading by now, good luck. If I'm correct about the Constitution kit you have, it may indeed be on about 1/110 scale. Or maybe a little smaller, in which case Millard's advice regarding N-scale people is excellent. (Better to err on the small side where figures are concerned.) If Mr. Graham's figure, 1/159, is right - that's even better. N scale is 1/160.

Welcome to the Forum. As you can see, it's inhabited by some extremely strange people whose minds run in extremely strange channels, and who really ought to have better things to do on Sunday afternoons. But most of us are relatively harmless.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 7, 2005 4:30 AM
Hi there,

first of all a big "Thank you" for your input! Seems to me you don't just become a specialist in the history of the ship you build, but on the kit itself Wink [;)]

Thing is, that since there was no scale given either on the box or in the instructions, I did some www-search and found the kit at http://www.shipmodels.co.uk/561_1.html , where they announce the kit with a 1:110 scale. And the lenght of the model (hull about 40cm, overall about 60cm) seems to match with that.... but I guess we all agree that the scales given with these kits are very inaccurate - I keep wondering why the Revell Victory in1/148 (according to Revell) is smaller than the 1/150 Superbe from Heller?

Can you give me some advise on the paintwork of the figures? I only have information on the look of seamen and officers in the British navy, but nothing about Americans - I don't want to go to deep in details, but I thougt it should be more than just white trousers and blue shirts....

Hope to find a copy of FSM for that article about water!

Landschrabbler
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, March 7, 2005 8:13 AM
Welcom aboard Landschrabbler.

Scott

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 7, 2005 4:51 PM
Hm, I thought I just show you what my kit looks like - maybe someone recognizes... but it seems like I'm too stupid to add a picture Blush [:I]. Maybe anybody can help me here...

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