Iowa class upgrades....

Thanks guys, those links are really helpful!!
cdclukey, I've checked another online store I find very useful:
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/ I've gotten quite a few books from there that were otherwise not available. All books are secondhand, but they all look good apart from some minor defects. Many of the am are only a few dollars!! I even had some books that cost me more to ship than the actual book!!
Even Amazon can't beat that!!!
BTW, the book isn't that expensive at Amazon at all, if I where to get it here in Holland though "The American Bookcenter" in Amsterdam, I couldn't even get it.... And I doubt my library has it. I'll order it as soon as possible, it looks very cool, and the topic is something I always liked: the "mating" of a battleship and a carrier!!
Anyway, in Norman Friedman's book "U.S. Battleships: An Illustrated Design History" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0870217151/qid=1111852324/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-3322112-9378419?v=glance&s=books
there is a large aprt on the resurrection of the Iowa class back into service. It also describes in detail what the actual plans would have been. It was to be designated "Heavy Assault Ship" and it would have featured:
"A raised flight deck aft covered a hangar accommodating vehicles, 1,800 troops (on a gallery deck), and twenty helicopters. The other ten would have to be stowed topside; three helicopters could operate simultaeneously. Fourteen LCM-6 landing craft would be stowed in cradles on the main deck and 02 levels, handled by four 35-ton cranes. A saddle tank would accommodate 100 tons of aviation gasoline, and 675 tons of JP-5 jet fuel could be carried. Stowage would amount to 7,000 square feet of vehicles (about 250 tons) and 100,000 cubic feet (1,600 tons) of ammunition and cargo. Self-defense of a solitary unit might require an SQS-23 sonar in the forefoot and the associated ASROC antisubmarine rocket."

Below is the text that comes with a cross-section diagram of the proposed Commando Ship (CS):

"Proposed Commando Ship (CS) conversion of an Iowa-class battleship, as envisaged by BuShips, April 1962. A hangar would have been installed aft with an elevator forward of it, and boat stowage (with cranes above) between the elevator and the two surviving twin 5in/38 guns. A new pilot house would have been installed, and an ASROC box launcher fitted forward of No. 1 turret. The hangar would have accommodated ten helicopters and four vehicles, with ten more helicopters on the flight deck, and the ship would have carried six LCM-6 Mod 1 landing craft on the 2nd superstructure deck and eight more on the main deck. The landing deck would have been 200 x 108 feet, with a 25-foot wide and 50-foot long elevator. Loads would have included 8,000 tons of fuel oil, plus 100 tons of aviation gasoline (in the gas tank under the elevator, aft), 25 tons of motor gasoline, and 675 tons of JP-5, at a full-load displacement of 57,100 tons. An SQS-23 sonar would have been installed in the forefoot."

The helo's fitted would have been CH-46 SeaKnights. Not the smallest of helo's....

Remko

Heres a good thread concerning the Iowa class ships, there are several guys doing many versions of this ship

http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7&start=0

Hope this helps.

Ric

QUOTE: Originally posted by cdclukey Lastly, although shore bombardment was the main reason to keep these ships in service in the 21st century, let's not forget that they were badly wanted in the 80's to counter the Kirovs, and were expected to be able to go toe to toe with them.

Now that would have been an interesting fight!

QUOTE: Originally posted by Remko I was wondering (perhaps this topic is more at it's place in Sci-Fi...), after some talk about Iowa class ships, I am thinking about getting a 1/700th model of one. But I want to upgrade it so that it may serve in the 21st century. For thi I'll probably remove the aft turret, and one of the front turrets. As well as all the smaller turrets on the side. The rear deck will be dedicated to helo's and perhaps Harrier/JSF fighter planes, while the front deck will receive a VLS launch system.

Hey Rem, as a starting point, you could look at any schematics of the proposed "Battlecarrier" conversion of the Iowas. It was supposed to occur beginning in 1988, but by 1984 it had been dropped. There's a description at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/bb-61-av.htm and here's a link to a picture:



According to my copy of The Complete Encyclopedia of Battleships by Tony Gibbons, it was also supposed to include a VLS for Tomahawks forward of the turrets.

There's also a book called The Hybrid Warship that GlobalSecurity cites as a reference on the Harrier refit. Amazon wants $44.95 for it, but I bet your local library could get it through inter-library loan. It's at...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D1557503745/thespecialeventsA/102-6706993-1771307

Lastly, although shore bombardment was the main reason to keep these ships in service in the 21st century, let's not forget that they were badly wanted in the 80's to counter the Kirovs, and were expected to be able to go toe to toe with them.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Remko I'll be looking forward to your model Duke!! If you have trouble posting the pic, let me know, I can post it for you. Remko

Thanks Remco! I think my pics will post, but I appreciate the offer. I just have to take a few new ones. Gotta go dust that baby off.....

QUOTE: Originally posted by Remko BTW, were is that A-10 "What if?" topic? I can't seem to find it. Is it up already?

remko: try the link below. its an open ended GB so if you decide you want to join, come on in. one guy has a fire hog done in Red and White marking, very cool build.

http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27902

True, theses ships' primary function will be shore bombardment. And of course guns are the cheapest way in doing this. The best thing would be to have a new style of triple barrel 16" or even 18" gun turret. But this is very unlikely. The guns on the Iowa class weigh more than some other Navies ships!!!
So, I'll need some Bofors Mk57 stealth gun turrets in scale 1/700th. The most forward turret would be replaced by three or four sets of 64-cell VLS systems, fitted with a variety of missiles (Standard, Harpoon and Tomahawk Land Attack Missile) for self defence, anti-shipping, and land attack. More Phalanx CIWS may be needed, but I think that the four currently fitted would be enough.
Anyway, it's just an idea, and I might never built it at all. But it's fun to think about it!!

Remko

Removing the 16 inch turrets and guns voids any reason for possibly reactivating the Iowa class ships. Shoreline bombardment is the only roll that they can fill. The Armored box launchers (GMLS Mk143) for Tomahawks have been removed from service and are unlikely to return. Harpoon missiles would most likely be reduced. The Mk38 5 inch/38 guns are terribly inefficient compared th the Mk45 mod2 and Mk45 mod4 127mm (5inch) guns now in service and would likely be deactivated. The new 57mm gun that will go on the new DDX, LCS, and USCG DWP classes will be fitted to protect against fast surface craft.

Other than a landing pad and maybe a refueling capasity operation of aircraft of any type would not be practical.

I'll be looking forward to your model Duke!!
If you have trouble posting the pic, let me know, I can post it for you.

Remko

This sounds like something I did about ten years back or so with an Airfix 1/600 scale Tirpitz 'modified' to look like something the modern German Navy would use in the '80's/'90's. I even had a helicopter deck on it too. I'll have to find a pic of my kit, or take a new one and see if I can post it.

Thanks Rocky, I've thought about that too.... But I'm not very good with my hands... And have never done such a thing. Besides, I lack the space, equipment/tools and knowledge to do such a thing.

BTW, were is that A-10 "What if?" topic? I can't seem to find it. Is it up already?

Remko

remko: instead of cutting up a bunch of ships, what if you molded your own using resin? You could use modeling clay for the mold.

I think either Finescale or Kalmbach's other mag, Model Railroader, had good articles on this technique for small run items.

I have seen it used, and it worked out quite well.

This is a pretty neat idea. Over in the Aircraft side, we are doing a Group Build on "What If" A-10's. Some real neat builds are coming out of it.