Question on old ship kit.

The kit almost has to be the ITC (Ideal Toy Corporation) U.S.S. Oregon, from the fifties or sixties.

It was re-released not terribly long ago (in a slightly revised format) by a company called Glencoe Models, which specializes in reviving old kits. I'm not sure whether Glencoe is still producing it or not, but it probably can be found in hobby shops.

The original, ITC issue, if I remember correctly, was molded in several colors; the Glencoe version is all grey. It wasn't a bad kit - for its day. But it really shows its age. In its original incarnation it had an electric motor, the batteries for which took up considerable space inside the hull. As a result, ITC made some major concessions in the way of accuracy. As I remember, the central section of the boat deck, which should be one level lower than the catwalks running around it, is in fact flush with them. The Glencoe re-issue doesn't include the motorizing gear, but Glencoe didn't fix the deck.

I believe Fine Scale Modeler ran an article some years back about how to make the Glencoe kit into a reasonably accurate model of the Oregon's sister ship, the Massachusetts. That modeler, if memory serves, corrected the problem with the boat deck - among many other things.

Gold Medal Models makes a set of photo-etched metal detail parts for this kit. (I believe the set also contains parts for the old Revell U.S.S. Olympia.) I haven't seen this set, but on the basis of experience with other Gold Medal products I suspect the instructions give lots of suggestions on how to make the kit more accurate. An easy way to get to the Gold Medal webpage is through the Steel Navy website, www.steelnavy.com .

Unfortunately the Oregon and the Maine bore little resemblance to each other. There has, to my knowledge, been only one plastic kit with the name "Maine" on it. It was made by Pyro back in the fifties, and was in fact a reboxing of that company's U.S.S. Olympia kit. The actual Olympia bore even less resemblance to the Maine than the Oregon did. This particular little scam has long been pointed to as one of the worst examples of false advertising in the plastic kit industry. Unfortunately that Pyro "Maine" has also been through some reboxings - including, if I remember right, one by the French company Heller (of all people).

The only really decent plastic kit representing a warship of the Spanish-American War is generally conceded to be the Revell U.S.S. Olympia - a completely different product from the crude Pyro one. Unfortunately the Revell kit is hard to come by these days.

The wood kit manufacturer Bluejacket ( www.bluejacketinc.com ) has just announced a new, state-of-the-art U.S.S. Maine. The bad news is the price: something in the neighborhood of $600.00.

Sorry to be unable to bear gladder tidings. Hope this answers some questions - but take my senile memory with a grain of salt.

QUOTE: Originally posted by modelbuilder Hi I was clearing out some old storage this weekend and found a kit of the USS Oregon (i think) that I built when I was a kid. Would this kit be worth salvaging and rebuilding? If you think so can anyone tell me if there are any aftermarket products for this kit? Would it be possible to model the Maine from this kit?

Let me start by telling you where you can get the USS Maine, other than the hideously expensive bluejacket kit. Iron Shipwrights has her in resin, both 1/350 ($110) and 1/700 scale ($45). The bad news is that they're discontinued and remaining stock is limited.
http://www.commanderseries.com/ships.htm

Here's a photo of the 1/700 build :



And here's the 1/350:



Jtilley is dead on about one thing: The only real resemblance between the Maine and Oregon is the beutiful buff and white color scheme, which looks gorgeous with the anti-fouling red in full hull versions.

Now, as far as the Glencoe kit of USS Oregon, I'm building it right now. My grandfather bought one in the 80's and passed it on to me when he died. It seems to me it's either not nearly as bad as jtilley remembers, or Glencoe fixed the kit sometime after he got familiar with it and when my grandfather bought one. The finished product will look like the illustrations of her in The Complete Encyclopedia of Battleships and the boat deck also matches a super-detailed version of her I've seen online (but I'm not sure what kit the guy used, because the site's in Polish!). Also, there's a huge 1/48 scale model of her (http://www.steelnavy.com/Oregon48SFMaritime.htm) at the San Francisco Maritime Museum that has the boat deck in the same position as my kit. It's a very nice kit for being so old, but except for the hull and deck pieces, I've had to clean mold lines off every single part, and it's been a bear with most of them, especially the tiny machine guns.

But of course, you probably know all that stuff about mold lines, because you built the kit.

I'd say this: It would surpise me if Glencoe hasn't improved their mold process in the nearly twenty years since my kit was built, so if you want to build her, I'd say start with a new purchase of the same kit, or got to digitalnavy.com and get one of their card kits of her, which look really nice when finished. And like I said, if you really want the Maine, you're going to have to do resin.

I agree with cdclukey's comments about the ITC/Glencoe kit: for its age it's terrific. My memory may be playing a trick on me regarding the boat deck - or I may have the terminology wrong. I'm referring to the section of deck in the middle of the ship - the deck through which the stacks pass, and over which most of the boats are stowed. In the pictures of the model in the SF Maritime Museum that section of deck is on the same level as the deck on which the twin turrets of the secondary battery are mounted. My recollection - of the Glencoe kit, not the old ITC one - is that in the kit that deck is raised one level, so it's flush with the tops of the armored bulkheads surrounding it. My memory may be playing a trick on me, though.

My impression is that Glencoe doesn't make any of its own molds. It's an extremely small operation, specializing in re-releasing classic kits from previous generations. I'd be extremely surprised if that kit has been revised. But stranger things have happened.

The resin warship kits are another world - and some excellent Spanish-American War vessels can be found there. In addition to the ones cdclukey mentioned, there are several from a relatively new company, operating out of Greece, called Y.S. Masterpieces. On the basis of the reviews and pictures on the Steel Navy website, those appear to be some of the nicest kits on the market. Unfortunately they aren't cheap. It's a shame the Iron Shipwrights 1/700 Maine is no longer with us. Cdclukey has demonstrated that it can be made into a beautiful model.

I also seem to remember a review on that site of a recent resin Spanish warship kit. I don't remember the vessel name or the manufacturer - but what a fine idea!

I found a review of the Glencoe/ITC Oregon kit: www.modelwarships.com/reviews/reviews.html . From that page, click on "Past months Reviews," then "Ship Reviews Resin, Plastic and Metal," then "1/300 and Larger," then "1/225 Glencoe U.S.S. Oregon."

That reviewer (who presumably had the kit in front of him - which I don't) confirms that something's wrong with the deck structure, though I probably didn't describe the problem accurately. He describes it as follows: "For purists, there are some errors with the kit, the most prominent being in the superstructure. There is a deck that did not exist in this class of ships that lies between the upper and bridge decks. If you wish to make a significant step in authenticating this kit, most of this deck needs to be removed and a new deck and bulkheads added."

Cdclukey - does that sound like an accurate description of the one you've got? I suppose it's possible that Glencoe has revised the molds since the review was published, but I doubt it.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jtilley My impression is that Glencoe doesn't make any of its own molds. It's an extremely small operation, specializing in re-releasing classic kits from previous generations. I'd be extremely surprised if that kit has been revised. But stranger things have happened.

Although it seems that the Oregon has not been revised, Glencoe does update some of its molds. For instance, I'm working on their Martin MB-2 bomber kit. It was originally an ITC kit, and it originally had raised lines on the wings and fuselage for the national insignia. Glencoe removed those lines when it bought the mold.

I wouldn't be surprised if their other kits had similar, simple, updates to the molds, but like the MB-2, gross errors remain unfixed.

Regards,

Come to think of it - Glencoe also did some modifications to the old Aurora biplane kits it reissued. Or rather, somebody made those modifications. When those grand old kits were originally released, all (or nearly all) of them had raised outlines of markings to show where the decals were supposed to go. (It's always struck me as ironic that such raised outlines - and the "stippling" inside them - actually made the decals less likely to stick.) During their various reincarnations some of those kits lost their molded markings. Whether any of them were still on the molds when Glencoe bought them I don't know.

Let it also be noted that Glencoe has improved its reissues in another, highly significant way: Glencoe decals are beautiful. I have one of the old ex-Aurora SPAD XIII kits in a Glencoe box. The decals are worth the price of the kit - and look great on a Dragon SPAD.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jtilley I found a review of the Glencoe/ITC Oregon kit: www.modelwarships.com/reviews/reviews.html . That reviewer (who presumably had the kit in front of him - which I don't) confirms that something's wrong with the deck structure, though I probably didn't describe the problem accurately. I suppose it's possible that Glencoe has revised the molds since the review was published, but I doubt it.

First, I defer to your greater experience in the matter of Glencoe revising their molds. If you say it's unlikely, I believe it. Other than owning this kit, I hadn't ever heard of them before I subscribed to finescale.

Second, I defer to the reviewer as well. It should be noted that he's looking at an older version (because his kit came molded in two colors) but he's definitely right about the deck. I went down and got the Glencoe part and checked it against the photos of the 1/48 museum model. Basically, what the ITC designer did was treat the splinter shield around the machine guns as if it were another level of superstructure, rather than a mere shield.

So jtilley, looks like you should depend on your memory, it's apparently in good shape. You remembered it right years later, I last saw that part on Friday night when I primed it, and I remembered a whole bleedin' deck wrong! Yeesh!

But you know, sometime next year after I clear the backlog, I might just get a new copy of this kit and that Santos article and do this puppy right. It is a really beautiful ship.

Would that cdclukey were right about my memory - but I get daily reminders of how defective it is. One of the many weird things about getting older is that pieces of utterly insignificant trivia (e.g., the upper deck of the Glencoe Oregon) stick in one's memory, whereas important stuff (e.g., the car payment check I was supposed to mail today, and left on the bedside table) sinks into the primordial ooze at the base of the brain stem.

Let's hope for more pre-dreadnought kits. The cottage industry and resin folks are showing some interest; there's a wonderful range of 1/700 Russian kits from Combrig, who recently have been branching into the British Royal Navy as well. And Sealsmodel's Japanese warships from the Russo-Japanese War are some of the finest 1/700 plastic kits ever.

One other piece of good news on this front: Hasegawa has announced a 1/350 Mikasa (Admiral Togo's flagship at Tsushima in 1905). That one should be excellent. If it sells well, maybe we can hope for more.

Squadron's monthly flyer just arrived, with the 1/350 Mikasa listed at $74.93 on pre-order, and the Zvezda 1/350 Russian Cruiser Varyag (Russo-Sino War) listed at $34.96.

I'll be ordering both shortly. I'll be interested to see how well Hasegawa does with Mikasa, since their aircraft are very nice, and they've not released a ship kit in years.

Jeff

Good news indeed, Jeff - except for the Hasegawa price. But didn't you mean Russo-Japanese War?

QUOTE: Originally posted by jtilley Would that cdclukey were right about my memory - but I get daily reminders of how defective it is. One of the many weird things about getting older is that pieces of utterly insignificant trivia (e.g., the upper deck of the Glencoe Oregon) stick in one's memory, whereas important stuff (e.g., the car payment check I was supposed to mail today, and left on the bedside table) sinks into the primordial ooze at the base of the brain stem.

My grandmother used to have the same sort of trouble and say, "Christopher, never get old, you forget everything useful." And I'd be thinking, "Yeah, but then I have to die young, and that's a crappy plan too!"

QUOTE: Let's hope for more pre-dreadnought kits.

Your lips to God's ears, sir. Especially a good plastic kit of the Maine.

Hadn't heard about the Zvezda Varyag. I also have the Eastern Express 1/350 model of the Borodino on order. I'm sure that it's old news that the Ogonyak (sp?) and now Mirage kits in 1/400 of the Aurora and Potemkin are repops of the Heller kits. Pretty decent, although the ejector pin marks in the deck are irritating....

ERic

I have built the Glencoe Oregon and it was a fun build..I didnt do any scratchbuilding or anything like that..i built it right out of the box and it came out pretty good IMO..i recommend getting this ship..i have seem them on ebay for 9.99 USD..