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Heller's 1/150 Le Superbe

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  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Switzerland
Heller's 1/150 Le Superbe
Posted by Imperator-Rex on Sunday, May 1, 2005 8:02 AM
Has anyone built the French sailing ship Le Superbe released by Heller? What do you think of it? Does it have a lot of inaccuracies? And above all, what would you recommend to improve the model? Any separate parts that could be found on the market to make it more realistic?

I bought the kit in France 6 months ago and plan to start construction by this summer; research on the vessel has just started. From what I can see, the kit doesn't have a lot of flash. The two parts of the hull don't fit together well. Obviously, Heller planed to use some of the pieces on 1/150 Le Glorieux as well...

Thanks for you help!

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, May 1, 2005 9:12 AM
I can help a little, but not much. I bought one of these kits and reviewed it for Scale Models (the British magazine), but that was about 25 years ago and I can't recall having seen it since. So take the following with a big grain of salt.

My recollection is that it was a basically sound, well-detailed kit with a few problems. The biggest, perhaps, was the lack of camber in the decks. They were, as I remember, perfectly flat; they should be arched up slightly but noticeably in the middle. Deck camber is a fundamental, nearly-universal feature of wood ship construction, and Heller, for a long time, didn't understand it. If memory serves, their big H.M.S. Victory was the first of their major sailing ships to have camber in its decks.

The other major problem with Le Superbe, as I recall, was the "wood grain" detailing on the hull. It was very well done - if you're willing to believe that the entire hull was hacked out of one enormous tree. There was, as I recall, no indication of individual planks.

I think I also recall a goof in the gun carriages. As I remember, their sides were parallel. They should, of course, be wider at the rear than at the front, so the sides are parallel not to each other but to the tapered gun barrel. That one could be fixed by cutting the carriages up and gluing them together again, I guess - for the relatively few that would be visible on the finished model.

I also remember commenting on the instruction manual, which was a hopeless, inarticulate mess - especially with regard to the rigging. The Heller operation in those days (the late seventies) seems to have included some extraordinarily talented artisans who knew scarcely anything about ships. Those rigging diagrams weren't just simplified or inaccurate; they were downright irrational.

Otherwise ("...but other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?") I remember it as a decent, well-detailed kit. The designers got lots of things right. The "carved" decorations, as usual in a Heller kit, were excellent, and in general the detail was pretty good. I specifically remember the little raised triangles on the decks between the guns. Those are characteristically French shot garlands. Heller left out the cannonballs, but they're easy to make.

Here's a trick for making scale cannonballs. It requires some brass wire, a fireproof surface (such as the "soldering pad" sold by MicroMark), a small ruler, and a small soldering torch (butane, micronox, or whatever). Chop off some identical lengths - say, 1/16" to start with - of the wire, lay them on the soldering pad, and hit them with the torch. In a few seconds each bit of wire will coagulate into a perfect sphere. You'll have to determine the precise length (which, of course, will also be determined by the diameter of the wire) by trial and error, but once you establish that you can fill all those shot garlands in fifteen minutes.

Some good sources of information about this sort of ship are available - and unless Heller has changed that instruction book, you'll need them. The Musee de la Marine in Paris publishes a series of plans for historic French warships, including Le Superbe. They're available in the U.S. from Taubman Plans Service ( www.taubmansonline.com ). The best source on French 74-gun ships of the line, though, is a magnificent series of four bookd collectively titled Le Vaisseau de 74 Canons, by Jean Boudriot - one of the finest researchers and draftsmen of the twentieth century. The four volumes together illustrate and describe every conceivable part of such a ship. The two pieces of bad news are that they are (a) out of print, and (b) expensive. (There's an English translation by David Roberts, titled The Seventy-Four-Gun Ship, but it's even more expensive.) If you're within range of a good library, though, they're worth looking for. Not many libraries have them, but the Interlibrary Loan Service probably could get them.

This has gone on too long, as usual. Hope it helps a little.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, May 2, 2005 9:02 AM
Many of the Heller kits will share the same hulls and even some minor details. Heller has had an issue with the position marks being out of alignment. I think I had maybe one kit out of six where I could use the alignment pins.

I sometimes wonder if they used the same instructions as well?


Scott

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Switzerland
Posted by Imperator-Rex on Monday, May 2, 2005 12:25 PM
Thanx for your advice JTilley! I found the two books you mentioned in my local library, which is not bad for a town of ca. 150'000 people, given the rarity of the books!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 9:36 AM
I bought the same kit two months ago and came up with the same questions ;-)

Seems like there is at least "some" work necessary on that one. I would be very interested to hear about your experiences - sorry I cannot come up with interesting news since I had to do several other things in the meantime, apart from the fact that the hull-parts in my kit fit pretty good, but the decks need rework.

jtilley is right about the detailing of the hull - it REALLY looks like hacked out of one enormous tree, and the instruction manual is a mess. You might want to search the old threads for other comments.

*** just found the first one:
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38176

You must be pretty happy that you found the books in your library - I didn't have the luck, but I hope to pick up the booklet from the "Association de Amis des Musees de la Marine" on "Le Superbe" from the museum in Paris next month.

If you like to share youre experiences, my e-mail is "joerg_schumbert@yahoo.de".
  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Switzerland
Posted by Imperator-Rex on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 1:42 PM
Just sent you an email landschrabbler! Just to let you know it's not spam... ;-)
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 10:31 PM
Since landschrabbler has made reference to our earlier discussion of this kit, I'd better take this opportunity to correct a mistake I made in it. It has been brought to my attention that M. Boudriot, whom I somehow got the notion had passed away a few years ago, is in fact very much alive and well. I was delighted to hear that; perhaps we'll have some more plans from him.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Switzerland
Posted by Imperator-Rex on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 7:34 AM
Jean Boudriot seems to be very alive indeed... He even attends to the weekly Naval Archeology Seminar at the Musée de la Marine in Paris! With a little luck, landschrabbler might even meet him when he gets there! To see the program for the next conferences, go to http://www.musee-marine.fr/index.php?lg=fr&nav=583&flash=1

For those interested, Jean Boudriot has also published two other interesting books, apart from "Le Vaisseau de 74 cannons":
- Le Vaisseau de 50 à 64 cannons;
- Le Vaisseau de 74 à 120 cannons.
You can buy these books (yes jtilley, they're still on sale if you're willing to pay the price!) at: http://www.ancre.fr/index-e.htm .

There could be other sites as well, but this site lets you see the tables of contents, which is quite useful as well... Some pics and drawings taken from "Le Vaisseau de 74 cannons" are also shown: http://www.ancre.fr/V74/V74_2.htm (also: http://www.ancre.fr/photo02.htm). The ship on the pictures even seems to be Le Superbe, but I can't be sure about that right now...

The booklet on Le Superbe seems to be edited by Les Amis du Musée de la Marine (not the museum itself, but that's a detail): http://www.amis-musee-marine.net/pages/Monographies2.htm for 18€ (about 22$). I wouldn't recommand Taubman Plans Service (www.taubmansonline.com) on this one: they would sell the same book for 45-50$, and I don't like their site (couldn't find the book - no search engine, no alphabetical lists, ...); but they do have some nice stuff.

Having said that, I must emphasize once again that Le Superbe is truly a magnificent ship indeed...

(updated english links)
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 9:13 AM

Many thanks to Imperator-Rex for the most interesting info on availability of those plans and books. I've been a big admirer of M. Boudriot's work for a long time. There's nothing quite like a set of Boudriot plans for a combination of precision and aesthetics. He's a master of a dying art.

Taubman's Plan Service is problematic at the moment. Abe Taubman has been one of the great figures in American ship modeling for as long as anyone can remember. Anybody who's met Abe will remember the experience; he's an extremely knowledgeable and jovial gentleman. He's also pushing 90 years old, and he recently turned over his business to the folks at Loyalhanna Dockyard. For a few years prior to that development some of Abe's friends had been operating a website in his name. It had all sorts of problems, probably because they were only working on it part-time. Lots of the merchandise Abe carried wasn't on it, and the search facilities on it weren't really very good. When the Loyalhanna folks took over they started revamping the site, and in my opinion the results so far are extremely impressive and promising - but the site at the moment is very much a work in progress. I suspect it will improve greatly over the next few months. I certainly hope it's a success. American ship modeling would be much the poorer if Taubman Plans Service wasn't a part of it.

Much later edit:  Abe Taubman has, unfortunately, passed away.  The folks at Loyalhanna Dockyard are, however, still operating the plans business, and keeping the Taubman name in his memory.  The website is www.taubmansonline.com.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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