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Framburg ships

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  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Framburg ships
Posted by schoonerbumm on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 11:08 AM
I keep seeing Framburg 1944 "spotter" or 'ID" ships for sale on e-bay. I picked up a couple of them and they seem to be accurate (aside from occasional missing, not lost, but missing details like torpedo tubes on the Tribal Class DD).

But what intrigues me is that there only seem to be Allied vessels in the series. Were these truly used by US forces to train soldiers and sailors, or was that a marketing claim to sell toy ships?

It seems odd to me that identifying Axis vessels wouldn't be a priority.

....or all theTirpitz models impossible to find now?

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 9:34 PM
When I was working in a maritime museum - that's 25 years ago now - I did some reading about this topic. I've probably forgotten most of what I every knew, but I do remember some of it.

There were at least three manufacturers of these models: Comet, Framburg, and one other whose name I can't recall. (Superior?) They were issued in two scales. "Instructor Models" were on 1/500, and "Student Models" on 1/1200. (The latter was chosen because it supposedly made the model at a distance of ten feet appear the same size as the real ship would at ten miles - or something like that.) They were issued in sets, each set being packaged in a light blue painted plywood box shaped like a briefcase. The models were screwed down to wood shelves, which slid into grooves in the cases.

Just about all types of ships, Allied and Axis, were covered. The joint where I worked had a pretty big collection (though I can't remember exactly how many) in both scales. The methods of construction varied somewhat. As I recall, most of the bigger ships in 1/500 scale had pine hulls, with metal superstructures, turrets, and other details. I think all the 1/1200 ones were entirely cast in metal - but I may be wrong about that. Some manufacturers put more detail into their models than others. Some ships, for example, had rotating main turrets, with cast mounting shafts that were pinched with pliers underneath to keep them in place. Smaller ships, like destroyers, usually were cast in one piece.

An anecdote that my father told me may provide a hint as to why the Axis models are somewhat more scarce. Dad was in officer candidate school somewhere in Florida in October, 1944, during the Battle of Leyte Gulf. One morning one of his instructors walked into the classroom, picked a "teacher model" of a Japanese carrier up off a shelf, said "we don't need this one any more," and dropped it in the trash can. He'd just heard that the ship had been sunk.

I think the scarcest of all U.S. recognition models are the merchant ships - and I think I know why. One of my more interesting - and frustrating - projects at the museum was to conserve and restore the recognition model collection. The blue "briefcases" had been sitting on a set of shelves in a storeroom for years without being opened. You can imagine what fun it was to get each box down and see what was inside - until I came to one that was dripping some sort of sticky brown substance. When I opened it I was practically knocked over by the overwhelming stench of what seemed to be vinegar. When I got my breath back I discovered that the contents of the box consisted of a couple of dozen 1/1200 merchantships ("Tanker," "Liberty Ship," "Passenger Liner," etc.) that had been cast in some primitive form of plastic. They had assumed the shapes and appearance of rotten bananas, and were rapidly decomposing into a revolting, sticky, brown substance that smelled like vinegar. After consulting briefly with a conservator we concluded nothing could be done for them. We photographed them carefully, threw them out, and took showers.

The metal models were suffering from "lead disease," a process involving oxidation that almost invariably affects artifacts made of lead. The symptom is a white or grey "flowering" of the metal. The conservator whom we consulted suggested that the chemicals in the adhesive holding the plywood cases together might have made things worse. We put the old models through electolytic reduction, a simple technique that supposedly restores the lead and reduces the chances of its "flowering" in the future. When the models came out of the reduction tank they looked pretty good. I primed them with Floquil primer, painted them with PolyS (as it was known in those days), wrapped them in acid-free paper, and stored them in metal cabinets, with air circulating around them fairly freely. The lead disease was back in about six months.

I seem to recall a good, thorough article about American recognition models in the Nautical Research Journal some years back. I'll see if I can find it; if so, I'll do another post. For the moment, this is about all I can remember about the subject.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Thursday, May 5, 2005 7:32 AM
In the early 60's, my dad was stationed in Bremerton where he was assigned to "de-militerize" ships that were slated for the scrap heap. While working on a carrier, he noticed that the "incinerator" box was full of 1/500 cast metal recongnition models of British warships. It was also full of Balklite made 1/72 aircraft. He "aquired" as many as he could and we still have them locked away. So to answer the question if these were used to train military personal? Yes they were. What of the demise of these models? Like John described, these were military property, and when they were no longer needed, like most surplus property, were just thrown away of sent to incinerators.

Many of the ones that survived were taken by service personel or were never put into military service from the factory.

BTW, John, my models too have lead corrosion on the underside of the model. The outside of the models are still in very prestine condition.

Scott

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, May 5, 2005 7:56 AM
Scott - You're lucky. Lead disease is a strange, unpredictable phenomenon. It seems to be affected by all sorts of things: atmospheric conditions, proximity of other materials, etc. I suspect the biggest factor is the actual composition of the metal. Most castings that we identify as "lead" in fact have other things mixed in with them - zinc, for instance.

If I were you I'd brush the "flowering" off the bottoms of those models and put some good metal primer on them. If the only damaged area is on the bottom, the primer won't show - and you may stop the lead disease from spreading to the visible areas. For the sake of future generations, it would be a good idea to write down what you've done and put the paper in the box with the models.

As scale models these things leave something to be desired, but they're full of character - and in historical terms they're some of the most interesting and important models ever made.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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