SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Need some opinions on U Boat Rusting

2362 views
30 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Detroit City Baby!
Need some opinions on U Boat Rusting
Posted by ScaleModelingByChris on Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:47 AM
I am about 50 per cent done with Revell's big 1/72 U-Boat. I have searched hundreds of pictures and read articles about these boats, and from what i understood they were hard to keep up on and depending on the crews mission they could often go out for a very long time without service. Alot of the pictures i have seen they are very rusted and with that i went ahead and started the weathering prosses on mine. Now i look at it and it seems maybe i overdid it? So i decided to ask all the other talented builders on this board what you guys think? Should i take it down a notch? or keep sailing?Black Eye [B)]


NEVER FORGET 12-7-41 & 9-11-01 http://www.smbchobby.com http://usscimarron.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, June 23, 2005 11:05 AM
I found this through the Google Images search:


Direct link to this is http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/gifs/U_BOAT_1.jpg

While it is both B&W and too contrasty, it seems pretty clear that on this boat there are no large rust stains on the top section of the hull. There is some sort of discoloration near the water line, but I couldn't venture to say from what.

On the other hand, the following image shows about as much as you could want to know about both above and below-waterline weathering:


Direct link to full size version of this is http://www.navyphotos.co.uk/uboat%20u1181b.jpg

Hope this helps.
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:03 PM
The decision is yours...but consider something...rust occurs when bare metal is exposed to air...in the case of a U-boat, although they spent most of their time on the surface, those surfaces were almost always wet, even when they were on the surface is good weather. Although oxidation does continue to happen underwater (at a considerably slower rate), I would tone down the rust. What you tend to see on U-boats is more of a light streaking from the salt deposits mixed with a subtle rust.

A good example would be to look at heavy equipment...bulldozers, dumptrucks, any sort of machinery that's left outside to the elements and has areas of worn paint.

My belief is that if you do too little, it's still believable, because even the dirtiest of vehicles were clean at one point in their lives. If you go overboard (no pun intended), that's what people will notice and remember about the model.

That being said, you do what you think looks good!

Jeff
  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: I'm here physically, but not mentally.....
Posted by MontanaCowboy on Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:34 PM
I've never been known to criticize anyone, but I think it's OK. (Like I could do better) To me, the bow looks the best, I think the top looks kind of repetitive. I don't think rust should be on the top. Again, I could not do any better.
"You know, Life is like a Rollercoaster. Sometimes you just die unexpectedly." No wait, that's not it.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:43 PM
I agree with what Jeff Herne has said. You also want to think about the angle of the streaking. U-boats were almost always moving forward. The streaks would be angled more in the direction of the stern. Not so horizontal, but more of a 35 to 45 degree angle. This will also help give the model some "movement".

Looks like you're using Kriegsmarine colors from WEM? Which boat are you building?

Take Care,

Jess
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Detroit City Baby!
Posted by ScaleModelingByChris on Thursday, June 23, 2005 11:25 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by colagero

I agree with what Jeff Herne has said. You also want to think about the angle of the streaking. U-boats were almost always moving forward. The streaks would be angled more in the direction of the stern. Not so horizontal, but more of a 35 to 45 degree angle. This will also help give the model some "movement".

Looks like you're using Kriegsmarine colors from WEM? Which boat are you building?

Take Care,

Jess

IM not sure yet? I thought the rust was a little bit much on the conning tower/ but im not sure how to tone it down?
NEVER FORGET 12-7-41 & 9-11-01 http://www.smbchobby.com http://usscimarron.com
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Connecticut
Posted by DBFSS385 on Friday, June 24, 2005 6:13 AM
Much of what you see in B&W photos is also the different hues of paint on the boat.
The lighter shades of paint that were applied over the darker base or primer coat wore off quite easily.. This is very evident in the North Sea operating boats where Ice and Heavy seas played havoc with paint.. Ice is very abrasive.
When operating in the Med or other areas where the Seas were not so cold or rough the paint held up much better. This is evident by how well the finishes on US Fleet Boats faired while operating in the South Pacific.
Items such as salt and alge would also stain the darker hull paints.
The finish on a operational boat during wartime was the least concern a Submarine crew had.. hence the many unkept looking boats.
Be Well/DBF Walt
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Friday, June 24, 2005 8:40 AM
Chris,

Toning it down is actually quite simple...and there's a couple of ways you can do it...you can match pastel colors and pastel over the rust stains, or you can apply a thinned coat of the base color over the rust. Don't cover it up completely, just take the sharp contrast off.

What I've noticed about U-boats rusting is they tend to rust everywhere, not in isolated spots like you'd find on a surface ship (around the channeling drains, bilge holes and hawsepipes for example). Every time a U-boat surfaces, water would flow through every one of those drain holes, resulting in a fairly uniform flow of water.

I've got a decent collection of U-boat photos, I'll see if I can find some that are close-up of boats returning from patrol. If I have any, I'll post them here for you.

Jeff
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Detroit City Baby!
Posted by ScaleModelingByChris on Friday, June 24, 2005 9:01 AM
Thank you, i toned down the conning tower, what do you think?
BEFORE

AFTER
NEVER FORGET 12-7-41 & 9-11-01 http://www.smbchobby.com http://usscimarron.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 24, 2005 9:07 AM
The toned down version does look better. What plans do you have for the main part of the hull?
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Detroit City Baby!
Posted by ScaleModelingByChris on Friday, June 24, 2005 9:24 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by ag918w35

The toned down version does look better. What plans do you have for the main part of the hull?


What do you mean?
NEVER FORGET 12-7-41 & 9-11-01 http://www.smbchobby.com http://usscimarron.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 24, 2005 12:42 PM
From the picture it appears as though the main hull has much less weathering (if any) relative to the superstructure and deck. I was wondering if you're planning to do anything else to it, or if you are happy with the way it came out.
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Friday, June 24, 2005 1:07 PM
Chris,

In my opinion, you nailed it...looks great. Did you use the thinned base color or pastels?

Jeff
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Friday, June 24, 2005 1:10 PM
ag,

Weathering on the lower hull will be considerably less, since that portion of the boat is underwater. Subtle countershading or drybrushing along the weld seams and rivet lines, probably some paint scrapes, but not much in the way of rusting at all...and although it could be deemed as 'accurate', 1/72 barnacles just don't look right, no matter what...lol.

Jeff
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Detroit City Baby!
Posted by ScaleModelingByChris on Friday, June 24, 2005 1:31 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by ag918w35

From the picture it appears as though the main hull has much less weathering (if any) relative to the superstructure and deck. I was wondering if you're planning to do anything else to it, or if you are happy with the way it came out.

On the lower hull i gave it a heavy wash of dark brown, you should see it better in this pic,
NEVER FORGET 12-7-41 & 9-11-01 http://www.smbchobby.com http://usscimarron.com
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Detroit City Baby!
Posted by ScaleModelingByChris on Friday, June 24, 2005 1:33 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeff Herne

Chris,

In my opinion, you nailed it...looks great. Did you use the thinned base color or pastels?

Jeff

I used the base and drybrushed it, then just wiped away the rust color with a wet towel since i had not sealed the MIG pastels yet.
NEVER FORGET 12-7-41 & 9-11-01 http://www.smbchobby.com http://usscimarron.com
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: sunny brisbane australia
Posted by biscuit3 on Sunday, June 26, 2005 7:54 AM
i served on submarines,and what we used to find was that the lower hull would get like a green slime on it along the flow lines around the hull with prolonged time submerged ,hope that helps Pirate [oX)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:18 AM
There's a great article available on the subject of U-boat painting and weathering at:

<http://uboatcolours2.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/index.jhtml>

Hope it helps. Smile [:)]
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Detroit City Baby!
Posted by ScaleModelingByChris on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:17 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by ummeli

There's a great article available on the subject of U-boat painting and weathering at:

<http://uboatcolours2.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/index.jhtml>

Hope it helps. Smile [:)]


Thanks
NEVER FORGET 12-7-41 & 9-11-01 http://www.smbchobby.com http://usscimarron.com
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Detroit City Baby!
Posted by ScaleModelingByChris on Thursday, June 30, 2005 3:40 PM
Heres a updated shot of the conning tower progress,

NEVER FORGET 12-7-41 & 9-11-01 http://www.smbchobby.com http://usscimarron.com
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Thursday, June 30, 2005 3:54 PM
That looks great Chris...How's about sending me a good photo on a nice background for the Reader Gallery?

Jeff
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Detroit City Baby!
Posted by ScaleModelingByChris on Thursday, June 30, 2005 4:11 PM
I would love to, I still need to finish it. I have the deck gun plus some deck details and railings and such left, but it should take long. One thing is it will be hard getting this puppy in one shot! Any ideas on getting a good picture of the whole thing? Also that Eduard set is really nice. I think i might top it off with a conning tower crew from Warriors. Tongue [:P]
NEVER FORGET 12-7-41 & 9-11-01 http://www.smbchobby.com http://usscimarron.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 7:43 AM
Hey,

I'll be buidling the same model very shortly..... just wondering if you have a link to where to get the conning tower crew from.

Oh...and for some REAL GOOD U Boat resources/pics try

www.uboat.net
  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Switzerland
Posted by Imperator-Rex on Tuesday, July 5, 2005 11:09 PM
And speaking of finding a crew for your sub, don't forget that Revell has just released their own German Navy figures (1/72)...

http://revell.de/cgi-bin/kat/katalog.pl?cmd=overview&KOSCHL=07&grp=08&ARARTN=02525&modellsuche=&showall=true&ps_KOSCHL=&SWO=&MAS=&frei=&lang=en&kat=modell&sort=&page=3&mas=
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 6:30 AM
Sweet! Wish they would show actual pics of the figures though. I have seen some that looked like they came out of a comic book, or were very poor in detail. I also found this site with TONS of figures and aftermarket kits for the Revell Sub (even has several INTERIOR kits!!)

http://www.modelsbymickster.com/cgi-bin/hobbyshop/hobbyshop.pl?inv=Uboote

  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Wednesday, July 6, 2005 1:25 PM
Chris,

For a model that size, you either need a large sweep (background), or even a natural background (if you live near a large body of water.

Best advice is to shoot the model 3/4 on bow, this in effect shortens the model's perspective, allowing you fit it into frame.

Imagine if you would...photographing a real sub...put yourself about about 50 yards ahead and 50 yards out from the bow...that's your angle!

Jeff
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Detroit City Baby!
Posted by ScaleModelingByChris on Saturday, July 9, 2005 6:51 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeff Herne

Chris,

For a model that size, you either need a large sweep (background), or even a natural background (if you live near a large body of water.

Best advice is to shoot the model 3/4 on bow, this in effect shortens the model's perspective, allowing you fit it into frame.

Imagine if you would...photographing a real sub...put yourself about about 50 yards ahead and 50 yards out from the bow...that's your angle!

Jeff

Ok
I am just about finished, here are some more shots. Jeff, do you need me to put all the shots on a disk and send them to you?


NEVER FORGET 12-7-41 & 9-11-01 http://www.smbchobby.com http://usscimarron.com
  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Detroit City Baby!
Posted by ScaleModelingByChris on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 5:28 PM
Finally finished!



NEVER FORGET 12-7-41 & 9-11-01 http://www.smbchobby.com http://usscimarron.com
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Virginia, USA
Posted by samreichart on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:05 PM
Chris-
awesome work...really nicely executed.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur :)
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 8:31 AM
Chris,

These are great...detail shots are nice...

I'll see if I can explain this...when you take an overall shot...you want the background to be seamless...you can do this by using a piece of poster board that's in a curved shape behind the model.

Here's a shot of my S-boote to show what I mean...



The curve of the background eliminates that seam line that you get when you photogrpah your model on a flat surface like a table with a similar colored background, like a wall. It also reduces the amount of reflection and bounce you get from the flash.

Let's talk via email and we'll see what we can come up with.

Jeff



JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.