New guy needs help with Heller's La Belle Poule

I get the impression that the chicken doesn't have quite the same emotional association in France that it does in the U.S. Over here the thought of naming a ship after a chicken would be regarded as rather amusing. But I know that, for instance, when Franz Josef Haydn wrote a series of symphonies for performance in Paris he titled one of them "La Poule" - and apparently that didn't imply anything especially humorous.

It's interesting that different animals call up different emotional associations in different national cultures. Sailing ship modelers occasionally make the mistake of putting eagles on ships from the American Revolution. In fact the eagle wasn't declared the national bird of the U.S. until 1782, and didn't make its appearance in ship carving till well after the Revolution. (The favorite national symbol prior to that time was the rattlesnake - a creature European settlers had never seen.) There was some argument about what the national bird should be; Benjamin Franklin advocated the turkey. The thought of an American frigate with a turkey for a figurehead is worth pondering.

Michel - can you tell us any more about this? I, for one, find this sort of thing fascinating.

QUOTE: La Belle Poule?? doesn't that mean, "the beautiful chicken"? What a strange name for a warship...

Well, first, it was thought, that "La Belle Poule" was "La Belle Paule du Vivier", a beautiful lady king Francois I saw in Toulouse, but, today, we can be sure, that the figure head of the first "la belle poule" was a huge brass hen. (talking about farmyard animals, "belle" can also mean "big").
The first "Belle Poule" fought heroically the British frigate Arethusa. This is the reason why there have been several "Belle Poule" in the French navy, even today, there is still the 1932 schoolship "la Belle Poule".

Michel

i've got a similar problem....older model of the USS Forrestal. damn heller paint numbers******me off. that site that rex left rules. i found a nice reference chart for both heller and humbrol numbers. here's a link for the heller paints, but i don't know if it will help by looking at those paint numbers....http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_heller.htm

well on the bright side its a more modern aircraft carrier that i'm working on so at least i can wing it somewhat.

QUOTE: Originally posted by RemcoGrob La Belle Poule?? doesn't that mean, "the beautiful chicken"? What a strange name for a warship... Anyhoo, what are the Heller paint numbers? I think I have a conversion chart lying around somewhere.

If only it were true, what a stunning name for a warship, you can just picture the scene! all the top brass standing around, saying"what did you just name her?!"

QUOTE: Originally posted by Powder Monkey Here are the paint numbers from the instructions 33 63 110 103 16 Thanks

Hi Powder Monkey,

I have the Heller's 1/150 Le Superbe. It's a pretty old kit by now but I haven't started construction yet (summer is taking its toll on me,,,).

Anyways, I think Heller had its own colours until 1960-1970, but used to have longer numbers for them (like 7000s, 8000s, 9000s). After a while, Heller started using Humbrol's colors instead.

So according to my color chart :

33 = black (matt)
63 = sand (matt)
110 = natural wood (matt)
103 = cream (?) (matt)
16 = gold (metallic)

You can do a google search to find color conversion charts if you wish to get colors from other manufacturers, or can use this link:

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/colorcharts_2.asp

Hope this helps! Take care

PS: by the way, "poule" also means "chick" in French (that is, a nice and sexy girl )

Here are the paint numbers from the instructions
33
63
110
103
16
Thanks

Actually poulet is chicken... poule can be used generically for 'bird', goose, hen, etc. But there are other meanings, poule is also a word for 'sport'.

I've always prefered the translation 'the good game', 'the beautiful game',

..maybe the original of Roger Penske's 'grand sport'

..or maybe it's a reference to cock fighting

who knows, they were French after all

La Belle Poule?? doesn't that mean, "the beautiful chicken"?
What a strange name for a warship...

Anyhoo, what are the Heller paint numbers?
I think I have a conversion chart lying around somewhere.

You could also find La Belle Poule at

http://www.amis-musee-marine.net/pages/Monographies1.htm

It costs 30$ (25€) instead of the 85$ you would have to pay at Taubmansonline.

On the other hand, Taubman is one of the last booksellers which specialize in modeling plans and other related documents; if you can afford to pay the extra price, I would go there to support this kind of business and keep it going!

Thank you Schoonerbumm. That info should get me started. The yellow for the bulwarks: is this just primary yellow, or a different shade?

The colors for La Belle-Poule depend on the timeframe modeled. As built, (per the Heller instructions) she would have followed the standard black hull, white gun strake, yellow or green interior bulwarks etc. I have several printed paint chip references from Boudriot, and they are not consistent... so I wouldn't worry about splitting hairs on different hues. I would tone down the colors, both for scale and period.

The simplist, and most significant scheme for her is black on black on black. Black hull, black gun strakes, black gallery trim, black tops of the rails, black capstan, with only the figure head bust and stern name in gold. Inside gun ports and bulwarks are yellow. Masts are oiled wood with tops and caps in black. Capstan color and hatch trim is probably black as well (I'm still researching this). If the model has the raised geometric linear (lines and diamonds) detail on the upper gallery, it should be picked out in gold.

The significance of black? In 1846, under the command of the Prince de Joinville, the Belle-Poule returned Napolean's ashes to France. Following the Emperor's return, all of the frigate's upper works were painted in black and remained that way until she was struck from the Navy in 1861.

Best regards and have fun...

I'm afraid I'm not knowledgable enough about French warships to help much. I do know there's a good set of plans available (assuming this is the Belle Poule of 1834). The Musee de la Marine publishes a series of plans of French warships; I've never used them myself, but they have a pretty good reputation. I suspect they contain more than enough information necessary to build a fine model from the Heller kit. They're available through Taubman Plans Service, at www.taubmansonline.com . (This particular set is in the alphabetical listing under L.) The set contains plans, a written history of the ship, and some photographs (presumably of paintings or models). The bad news is the price: $85.00.

I seem to recall that this kit has come up before in this forum. Maybe somebody who's more familiar with it than I am will read this and be able to help more.

The colors are not named. There are only numbers. Some I can guess. The hull appears to be black with copper plating on the bottom. The others I am not so sure about. Doing a Google search on this ship turns up very little.

The instruction books in Heller sailing ship kits are notoriously awful. I'm afraid I can't help with the Heller paint numbers - if indeed they're Heller numbers. I believe Heller used to make its own paints, but I don't think it does any more. If your kit is an old one, though, the instructions may well refer to those obsolete numbers. If so, and if those are the only color references in the kit, you may have a problem.

Nowadays Heller and Airfix are owned by Humbrol, and Heller and Airfix kits generally come with Humbrol paint references. If the numbers on your instructions are in fact Humbrol ones, you can get the names of the colors from any dealer that carries Humbrol paint. I think, for example, they're on the Squadron Mail Order website ( www.squadron.com ).

Somewhere in that instruction book are the colors named? If so, the translations are pretty straightforward. Black - noir. White - blanc. Red - rouge. Yellow - jaune. Green - vert. Grey - gris. Brown - bruin. Copper - cuivre. Wood - bois. Light - claire. Tan - bois claire. Etc. You might find it worthwhile to pick up a paperback French-English dictionary. They don't cost much, and any decent bookstore should have one.

With regard to the sequence of assembling the hull - either of the options you've described should work fine. It's largely a matter of personal preference. There's plenty of room for personal taste in ship modeling.

One other thought that's relevant as you're starting the model. Give some thought now to how you want to mount the finished product. I don't know what sort of stand comes with that kit. If you like the appearance of it, and it's reasonably sturdy, great. If it's ugly, or too fragile to support the model adequately, you'll want to consider replacing it with a pair of pedestals, or some other mounting method. That will involve putting something inside the hull that can hold screws or bolts - and the time to think about that sort of thing is now.

Good luck. It's a great hobby.