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Airfix's new 1/100 HMS Victory

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Airfix's new 1/100 HMS Victory
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 11, 2005 6:27 AM
I spotted this kit in a hobby shop a couple of days ago. It was priced at £99 which must make it the most expensive Airfix kit in history - even the 1/12 Bentley and 1/24 Stuka are "only" around £50-60.
The box is absolutely HUGE (not surprising I suppose), it may even be the largest Airfix kit in terms of actual size, not counting the 1/48 Rockwell B-1 which is a rebox of the Revell kit AFAIK.

Has anyone here either bought this kit or had a chance to look inside the box - what's it like? Not that I'm thinking of buying it (totally out of my price range even if sailing ships were my main interest) but I'm very interested to know.

I can't imagine this kit selling too well somehow, however good it is, and even allowing for the Trafalgar anniversary - surely the average buyer will be put off by the colossal price, whilst experienced sailing ship modellers probably prefer wood models.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 11, 2005 3:32 PM
There are over 2100 parts !!!
found a link with a bit info:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXL887&P=7
  • Member since
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  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Monday, July 11, 2005 3:43 PM
It's the old Heller Kit. Reboxed.

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 11, 2005 3:58 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Big Jake

It's the old Heller Kit. Reboxed.


I've just started on the Heller version, Eb@y special, got it cheap(ish)
Hell of a kit, will certainly see me into my late 30s,lol
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, July 11, 2005 6:01 PM
The Airfix website acknowledges that this kit is a reissue of the Heller version. I do wonder, though, whether Airfix just might have taken the trouble to rewrite the English-language instructions. The ones in the kit I got (a long time ago, admittedly, but I don't think Heller has changed them) were a sick joke. The French version was bad enough, with its ridiculous numbers that practically had to be decoded with an Enigma machine. But the English "translation" apparently had been written by somebody who neither understood French nor had attempted to build the model. (The first hint: he thought "le mat de misaine" was the mizzenmast. In fact it's the foremast. The mizzenmast is "le mat d'artimon.") I resent paying that kind of money for such garbage. I do hope Airfix hired a literate English-speaking ship modeler to do a genuine translation - or, better yet, start over.

It's a great kit, but a few other features of it could stand improvement. I wonder, for instance, whether, in the 25 years or so since it was released, the designers have figured out that yards are supposed to be fastened to masts. (If the kit were built according to the original instructions, the yards would just sort of hang there.) There's no reason on earth why a plastic model company couldn't produce a set of parrels for the yards of a kit on that scale.

At any rate, let's hope the kit gets wide distribution and, in conjunction with the Trafalgar bicentennial, excites some interest. The plastic sailing ship model field needs all the boosts it can get.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 11, 2005 10:37 PM
jtilley, your comments scare me! not because your wrong, but because i have no clue what on earth your talking about, and I should, should'nt I? as I'm building one<gulp>
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, July 11, 2005 11:43 PM
Vapochilled - Don't be intimidated too much. I seem to recall that you've bought John McKay's book on the Victory. That's an excellent way to start "learning the ropes." McKay is one of the best in the business; his drawings are exquisite.

Another book you might want to acquire is The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships, by C. Nepean Longridge. The title not withstanding, it's about how he built a model of the Victory on 1/48 scale. The advantage of Longridge over McKay, for your purposes, is that Longridge has more text. He describes such things as yards, masts, and parrels verbally - and provides excellent drawings, by George Campbell, to clarify any complicated points.

The lousy Heller instructions do present a problem, and I can't offer a simple solution for it. If I were building that kit I'd throw away the "English translation" of the instructions, use the French ones to sort out the part numbers, and rely on McKay and Longridge for the rest. But - to be honest - I've been building ship models for forty-eight years; if I were just starting out I'm not sure how I'd take on this project. Frankly, I probably wouldn't.

Now, then. A mast (forgive me if I'm insulting your intelligence) is a vertical spar. An eighteenth-century square-rigged ship has three masts: fore, main, and mizzen. (The big spar sticking diagonally out of the bow is called the bowsprit. Let's leave it out of this discussion.)

Each mast is made in three sections: lower mast, topmast, and topgallant mast. (Note that the topmast isn't on top; it's in the middle. And the upper section of the topgallant mast is referred to as the royal mast, but - at this date, and on board this particular ship - it's actually just a continuation of the topgallant mast. Welcome to the wacky, wonderful world of nautical terminology.)

A yard is a horizontal spar to which a square sail is attached. (By "square sail" I don't mean that it's actually square in shape; it's usually a trapezoid. It's called "square" because when the wind is blowing from directly astern, the sail is set perpendicular - square - to the ship's centerline. That distinguishes it from a "fore and aft" sail, such as a jib, staysail, or spanker, which is set parallel to the centerline.)

The center of the yard (though the Heller designers apparently didn't know it) is secured to the mast. The wind blows into the sail, the sail pulls the yard forward, the yard pulls the mast, and the mast, by means of the standing rigging, pulls the ship.

In the case of the lower yard the securing apparatus consists mainly of a simple network of ropes, called a "truss." That mechanism lets the yard swing around the mast, to accommodate the changes in the direction of the wind. The three lower yards are called, respectively, the fore lower yard, the main lower yard, and the crossjack (or crojack) yard. (There's no sail on the crossjack yard during the era of this particular ship. To explain why would take a while.)

The other yards (topsail yard, topgallant yard, and royal yard, fore, main, and mizzen) are secured to their respective masts by "parrels." A parrel is a simple gadget consisting of a set of ropes running through wood balls, which are separated from each other by wood boards with holes drilled through them. (Believe me - it's really quite simple. The drawings in either McKay's or Longridge's book will make it clear in a second.)

Those upper yards have to move in two planes. When the sails are furled, the yards are lowered; when the sails are set, the yards are raised. And, like the lower yards, they have to swing around the masts when the wind (or the ship's course) changes. The parrels act sort of like crude ball bearings to let that happen.

(Incidentally - the extremity of a yard is called the "yardarm." Those literary references to "hanging somebody from the highest yardarm" are silly. There are two highest yardarms - one at each end of the highest yard.)

The Heller Victory (unless the company has changed it since I got mine - highly unlikely) ignores all this; it provides no means of attaching the yards to the masts. That's ridiculous. No ship could function that way.

This is just the tip of the great iceberg of sailing ship terminology and technology. Believe me, there are easier ways to learn this stuff than by building the Heller Victory. Unfortunately, at the moment there's a shortage of good, simple plastic sailing ships suitable for newcomers to "cut their teeth on." The ideal subject would be a small vessel - a brig, or a schooner - on a large scale. There aren't many kits in that category, but if you're interested I'm sure the other Forum members and I could suggest some.

Unfortunately it's tough (as the above paragraphs demonstrate) to explain this stuff verbally. Is there a ship model club in your neck of the woods? Or somebody who's been building ship models for a while? Getting acquainted with other modelers can be the biggest help of all - and makes the hobby a great deal more fun.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 11, 2005 11:56 PM
I'm fairly certain that was all in English,lol, thanks, it does make more sense, though I think in a years time when I get to the masts on this kit(no joke,it's huge) I'll be a little more aquainted with the books.
I think there is a club in north jersey, though with the little en on the way, I may find "breaking out" for a few hours tough, we'll see. First baby, first "decent" model.
Don't suppose if anyone knows if Airfix, redid the instructions?
I've not sat and compared the English/French instructions, are they that different?
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:08 AM
There are several ship modeling clubs - and lots of experienced, helpful sailing ship modelers - in the New York/New Jersey area. I'm sure they'd be glad to have you. (Jeff Herne - are you reading this?)

I need to confess that I got my Heller Victory back in about 1978, when it was brand new. My finances at the time (I was a starving grad student) wouldn't have let me buy such a thing; Model Shipwright magazine sent me a review sample. (My review of it appeared in MS later that year or early in the next. I'm afraid I don't remember the date.) A few years later I changed residences and knew I wasn't going to have room for the kit, so I gave it away. (I hadn't started it.) I haven't seen the inside of a Heller Victory box since. I have, however, heard from several other folks who have bought and built the kit. I have the distinct impression that the instructions are as bad as ever.

My 25-year-old recollection (which may not be entirely correct) is that the French instructions were extremely cryptic, relying heavily on numbers. (I seem to recall that I found one big typo in them - a pair of deck beams with their numbers mixed up.) The English version, as I remember, consisted of some general (and virtually worthless) pieces of advice on building the model and an alleged translation of the parts list, apparently written by somebody who didn't know much about French nautical terminology and knew less about ships. If my recollection is correct, the best thing to do with that English "parts list" is to burn it as quickly as possible.

Maybe Airfix, with its primarily English-speaking clientele, has redone the instructions. I certainly hope so.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:17 AM
Vapochilled - Here are a couple of other books that would be excellent additions to your library at this point.

The Neophyte Shipmodeler's Jackstay, by George Campbell. An old classic from the 1960s - paperback, reasonably priced, and jam packed with solid practical information and clear drawings. The focus is on models built from solid-hull wood kits, but Campbell also does a wonderful job of explaining basic terminology and technology.

Historic Ship Models, by Wolfram zu Mondfelt. More recent; a new paperback edition hit the bookstores a couple of months ago. Mondfelt's book is fatter and more detailed than Campbell's. It's also extremely Continental European in its orientation; it contains far more references to Scandinavian, French, and German practice.

Either of those books would be a good start. The Campbell one, which is considerably cheaper, would be an excellent first acquisition. If you can't find them at a local bookstore, both are available through Model Expo ( www.modelexpo-online.com ).

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:41 AM
Tahnks JT, It's half one in the morning and I'm sitting here now, trying to dig from the back of my mind, French lessons,lol
The kit I got is from the early-mid eighties, so the forming is not too bad, though there is a hell of a lot of sanding and filling to do!, as for the 100+ canons!!
I'm using pics of the web for the most part, the instructions look like the sub assemblies are all built then put together, this will either mean, one big paint job, or some touch up, I'll go with the latter, once I get to grips with the AB.
I think the rigging will be the only real stumbler for me, and with the books you suggest, and these forums, I think we should get a decent ship out of it.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 8:53 AM
I'll contact Airfix and see if they "re-wrote" the kit instructions in plain English and see if it's possible to get a set. I have no problem coping them if so. I could use a set myself.

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Walworth, NY
Posted by Powder Monkey on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:03 PM
JTilley,

Thanks for the explanation of masts and yards. It's nice to have it explained for us new guys! I know a picture is worth a 1000 words, but now we can attach names to the pictures.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:41 PM
yes, even in French,lol

big jake,
That would be excellent, keep us posted?
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: On the way to AC+793888
Posted by lolok on Thursday, July 14, 2005 3:14 PM
Hi Sailors,
Big Jake,you can put me down for a set as well..After all these years it would be amazing to see a PROPER set of instructions for the good old Victory. If they have done a new set,Airfix could probably make a tidy sum on just selling those to all us Heller kit owners.
When i bought my first one,a scary number of years ago,it did not even have the English???? (translation) I had to write to heller asking for it. When it came I realized I should not have bothered.
Thats when I began my library of Victory era books.
Jim Ryan Ex-Pat Limey in warsaw.Poland. " MENE,MENE,TEKEL U PHARSIN"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 14, 2005 10:13 PM
JTilley-Je suis francais but you are a real model affieicenado (sp?). I'll stick to dreadnoughts but your knowledge is an inspiration.

Dan
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 14, 2005 10:52 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by trowlfazz

JTilley-Je suis francais but you are a real model affieicenado (sp?). I'll stick to dreadnoughts but your knowledge is an inspiration.

Dan


one shade of grey and half a dozen canons,lol sheesh, where's your sense of adventure? you've not lived till you've sat and glued together 100 canons.....looked and the join lines on them and burst into tears!Sad [:(] I have 30 of them ready for priming, I have one hull half de-flashed one anchor that refuses to dry, things are going greatTongue [:P]
maybe I'll do the custom racing version of victory? one canon on the bow, one mast, one sail and all one colour to save on paint weight!
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: On the way to AC+793888
Posted by lolok on Friday, July 15, 2005 5:20 AM
The best thing to save your sanity and the look of the kit is to just ditch the plastic cannon and buy brass and wood ones. I did and it makes a world of difference. The spare ones I placed in front on the base unpainted so viewers could see the different sizes of gun and show off the brass.Also a good Idea to replace the top masts with wood.Saves some heartache down the line.
Finally as nobody has mentioned it yet.THROW the vac sails as far away as possible......Don't go there.
I did also hear a rumour from a German model shop owner here in Warsaw that a german model ship company is going to produce a full set of 'Authentic' Ratlines for the heller kit and the Soleil Royale ?? Could be hot air as so many rumours are.
Jim Ryan Ex-Pat Limey in warsaw.Poland. " MENE,MENE,TEKEL U PHARSIN"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 7:28 AM
Hey Vapo! Youshould model a submarine race.

Sorry, very old joke.
Dan
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Friday, July 15, 2005 7:28 AM
I emailed Airfix and was contacted for my mailing address, but the message did not give any details one way or the other. I hope thay send something in the mail. I like that funny feeling when you put up at home and see a "Plain Wrapped package in the mail box" either it's an adult surprise (HAHAHAHA) or something to do with modeling.

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 10:08 AM
lolok, have thought about it, but I really don't have an issue with the time frame on this one, I'll see how they turn out once I start painting them. As for the masts, I was goint to put brass tube up the insides to give some strength to them
Trowlfazz, heard it before, but suddenly it's tempting,lol
Big Jake, once you've dragged your self away from the porn catalouge,lol if airfix do sens something worth reading, I'd love a copy please.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, July 15, 2005 9:07 PM
Fully realizing that I'm about to reveal my status as a relative newcomer to the fine art of blogging, I feel like I need to ask a question. Just what the heck does "lol" mean?

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Australia
Posted by womble on Friday, July 15, 2005 9:36 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jtilley

Fully realizing that I'm about to reveal my status as a relative newcomer to the fine art of blogging, I feel like I need to ask a question. Just what the heck does "lol" mean?


laugh out loud

just an example of how lazy we are with the English language these days Cool [8D]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 9:37 PM
"laughing out loud"-there are many acronyms as well as emoticons used because we hate to type.

Dan
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 9:41 PM
Hey Jtilley check this out:
http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, July 15, 2005 9:49 PM
Gentlemen, I thank you.

I thought it might mean "lots o' luck." Seems that phrase is in the lexicon trowlfazz cited, but "laugh out loud" makes more sense.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 10:01 PM
Don't worry JT-there's only a few acronyms widely used. You'll get used to them (read as bored) before long.

Dan
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 10:54 PM
Most of them I don't know or use, but things like LOL, or if it's really funny ROFL I use often, I agree it's very lazy, I should stop using them.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 16, 2005 1:56 AM
I'll put this in here rather than start a new thread for now.
this is for anyone who HAS built the heller victory:
I've got the two primed hull sides together tonight, put in the cross braces(after finding out the drawing numbers are wrong!)
Now, before I glue down that lower deck, I see that the mast holes go through into locators in the bottom of the hull X3
Given the accuracy so far, I just want to make sure that those locators are in the correct place to give the right mast angles? If not, then I can do something about it now before the decks go down permantly.
Also, if you have built it, I'd like some info on where those rope loops are supposed to go on the port/strb stern area, drawing just shows them poking through holes around the gun ports?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 16, 2005 7:19 AM
I had no idea it was a re-issue of the Heller kit, I assumed with a price as high as £99 it had to be a new moulding. Seems a very steep price for a kit which isn't exactly brand-new and has a number of problems.
Hopefully the instructions should at least be an improvement on the Heller ones.

I was also looking forward to the release of the new Airfix Kriegsmarine set (which includes a destroyer and various minesweepers, U-boats and S-boats, all in 1/400) until I discovered that the price is going to be £45.99. This also seems very high (I was expecting it to be somewhere around £20-25) - apart from the destroyer, most of the models in this set must be tiny, and the destroyer can't be -that- big (a 1/600 one is pretty small)

Anyone know if this is also a re-issue? I've never seen these for sale before, individually or as a set, but I'm not exactly an expert. If they are actually new mouldings, the high price is more forgivable.
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