Making the USS Dace (Thresher Class)

Ahoy pnawrocki,

Revell makes a submarine kit in 1:178 scale called the USS LIONFISH.
The hull is 21 inches in long and accurate enough to represent either
a Gato or Balao type US fleet submarine. At this length, it will make a
very nice display piece.

I am not very familiar with US Fleet subs, but can tell you that the conning
towers were quite different . Do your research on the USS Dace and see
what type of tower it that. I do have some line profiles for the following
type subs:

Pre-war Gato
Mid-war Gato
Early Balao

You will need to do some modifications to the kit tower to achieve the
right configuration for the USS Dace.

I will be glad to e-mail them to you; just need your e-mail info.

Have a nice day and happy modeling !

Joe

Once you determine the conning tower configuration check at Nautilus Models for a resin update set. The tower that comes with the kit is quite a bit overscale. They have four conning tower versions as well as PE and laser cut wood decks for the various configurations.

http://nautilusmodels.com/

Yea if you could email me what to do that would be great. My email is pnawrocki@hotmail.com .

Thanks Ill check that site for updates, although do you know if anywhere sells decals for the USS Dace or would I have to scratchbuild them/stencil them on.

I have successfully used TESTORS decal paper to make many of my
own decals and this product is quite easy to use.

Look up the appropriate markings for this sub, download, resize and print.
There are many images available on the net for US fleet submarines.

Many US subs had numbers on their towers. You can look up a ship type
military font and create your own numbers in Photoshop.

Don't know if there are any commercial ones available for the USS Dace.

Joe

USS Dace was a Balao Class, Drum Variant. That means she would be vary similar to any boat with ha hull number between 240 and 268. Especially sine all were built at EB, in Groton, CT.

Go to this site and look up her hull number, there should be some pictures of her
http://www.navsource.org/archives/subidx.htm

You'll, also, have to get the dates that he was aboard. These boats changed, in some cases, greatly, over their lifetimes. You want something at least close to what your father remembers.

If you need specific info, post it here or email me at mkeatingss@cox.net . But, if you do email, put the boat's name in the subject line, so I'll know it's not spam.
Mike K.

wow. this is like a billion times more confusing than i actually thought. ok so heres what happened...

The first USS Dace (SS-247) was in the Gato Class and was used extensively during WW2. After the war it was transferred to the Italian Navy. I believe it was a diesel/battery powered boat.
The SECOND USS-Dave (SSN-607) was in the Permit Class and was a nuclear fast attack submarine. It was decomissioned in 1988 I believe.

I wanted to build the Permit Class version, but am unsure if they make a model for this (or conversion kits?). Stupidly, I did the research for this project AFTER i bought the kit suggested above (Revell USS Lionfish). Anyone know if i can get a conversion kit for this or if anyone makes a Permit Class US sub? Thanks a bunch.

Lol this is getting ridiculous. A few minutes after my last post I discovered that it was, in fact, in the Thresher Class of submarines which rings a bell from what my dad used to tell me about. When the USS Thresher sank off of New England, the class name was changed from Thresher to Permit. Interesting stuff, huh? So I guess im changing my question to do they make a Thresher Class submarine? Thanks a bunch for putting up with me guys.

Yankee Modelworks produces the USS Thresher which after it was lost the second boat in the class (USS Permit) became the new class name ship. This is 1/350 scale.
http://yankeemodelworks.com/ssn593.htm

Sorry about that. I keep forgetting how old I am. When someone says, that they want to build a model of their father's boat, I think WWII. Today's generation is talking about the nukes. Or, sometimes, Guppies. My era.
Anyhow. Here's some info on Dace.

USS Dace (SSN-607) was a Permit Class, Permit Variant. There were 14 ships in the Class (including Thresher) and Dace was one of the 7 Permit Variants. She had six sisters. 594-Permit, 595-Plunger, 596-Barb, 603-Pollack, 604-Haddo and 606-Tinosa. She was the last of the Permit Class, Permit Variants.

Only she and Barb were built at ING, Pascagoula, MS. She was laid down on 6 Jun 60, launched on 18 Aug. 62 and Commissioned on 4 Apr. 64. She was Decommissioned and stricken on 2 Dec 88.
The class was 278.6' long and 31.8' wide.

As far as modifying a Lionfish model to a Permit, I suppose it could be done. But you'd have to shorten it about 33', and add about 4' to its width. Then there's the cruciform tail and fairwater Planes. That's more work than I'd want to do. But then, Subs are only an obsession for me. I think I'd go with the Yankee Model Works Permit.
Mike K.

I had original suggested a conversion using the Revell Lionfish because
pnawrocki mentioned in the original thread that he believed the sub was a
a Gato class sub.
Since it is now evident that you are talking about SSN-607 USS DACE (Permit class)
and not SS-247 USS DACE (BALAO class) then the Revell Lionfish hull is of no use.

The WWII fleet sub hulls are very different in shape than the cigar shaped modern subs.

Have a nice day and happy modeling
Joe

Yea i now realize they structures are completely different, so Im just gonna go with the Yankee model and build not one but two!!! submarines. Maybe Ill do both versions of the USS Dace, that could be cool. Thanks for all the help guys!

SS-247=USS Dace (Gato Class)
SSN-607=USS Dace (Thresher -> Permit Class)

Now that's an idea worth doing !

And, if you want to get really wild, there's something else you can do.
When both models are complete, build a plexi-glass case. Make it about an inch longer than the Fleet Boat, and paint the back of the case a neutral pastel (light blue, etc.). Then, very carefully , very lightly, air brush the Fleet boat with the same pastel. If you do it right, the model should look almost transparent, against the case back..
Mount the Nuke towards the front of the case, as you would any model. Mount the Fleet Boat above the Nuke and against the back of the case. Actually mount it higher up and against the case back, rather than to the base
You could, also, add a plaque saying, "To my father ( his name) in memory of USS Dace (SSN-607). ....and those who went before." Then your name and the date you give it to him.
Mike K.

Now, to help with research, here's a whole truck load of info on the old Fleet Boats, out there. (I, also, posted this on the Hyperscale board)
1) Floating Drydock, for plans, and "Fleet Submarines of WWII, a pictorial Histories Publication".
2) Leeward Publications, "Ship's Data (USS Bowfin (SS-287)".
3) An old one (if you can find it) is "Profile Warships #34 - USS Barb (SS-220)".
4) Squadron Shop's "US Subs in action".
5) The Sub Committee is a group of sub enthusiasts. <<http://www.subcommittee.com/>>;
6) USSVI (the Sub Vets) <<http://www.ussvi.org/>>; Find a local chapter (Base) and go to their next meeting. Some of the guys have been on the boats since the late 30s.
Lastly, there are, I believe, several submariners on this forum, including myself.
Now. What is it you want to know? If I don't know, I'll probably be able to tell you where to go for it. (No double entendre intended)

As far as the SSN goes, the Sub Committee and the Sub Vets can be a treasure drove of info, for the nukes, too. And, I believe, Floating Drydock may have plans.
Mike K.

*what a great idea about the case and a kind of ghost effect with the fleet ship. Im going to seriously consider that...it sounds like it would be amazing, but the thing is, Im more old fashioned and prefer to use brushes instead of airbrushing. Im sure Id be able to get that light blue effect with a brush as well.

*Thanks for the great links for all the helpful info. The Yankee Model kit seems to be pretty straightforward so I dont think I need to make any modificaitons. I need to get the Nautilus conversion kit for the USS Lionfish to the Gato class of ww2 submarines though. If anyone has one the want to sell me or has any info about this, that would be great. Thanks a lot.

***one final thing I just thought of. How would you go about making an ocean diorama? I mean like making realistic looking waves and such. I know the EZ-water and Elmers glue + water methods, but how would you make large ocean swells? Thanks a lot everyone.

The Yankeemodelworks 1/350 kit is great. It is a little exspensive but well worth it. I would check your references for the Dace. The Yankeemodelworks kit has the trailing wire bulge molded in on the port side of the kit. Not all permit Boats had this feature. It is a feature that is easier to remove than to add.

The yankee model works makes the Thresher class uss dace . As mentioned above there were, in fact, 2 different USS Dace submarines in the US navy over the past 70 years.

In reality the "Thresher Class" was renamed Permit Class because of the "Sub Safe " Changes made on all the Boats in this class . So the Permits were in fact very different than the Thresher especially internally.. We never refered to this Class as Thresher Class. It was always Permit Class.

Right, that and the fact that the Thresher sank because of an engineering flaw (the Permit was the second boat in the class i think?). Sorry I thought you said "Gato class" (I typed the previous response at work and lets just say i was...out of it ). Yup you are right, sorry for the confusion.

Hey guys one last thing. I ordered the Yankee Model Works Thresher, so it should be here in a few days. I just had one last question. What color is the ship? Its kind of a dark blueish/black, so if you could provide the exact or closest match for paint color that would be great!!! Thanks

Also, I lack references for pictures. Google has like 5, and isnt very helpful so if any of you have any or know of anyplace to get them, that would be awesome. Thanks guys!!!

I like Testor's Spray "Panzer Gray", FS 36076 and brush-on "Schwarzgrau '39-'43", 2094. IMHO it looks like a perfect scale black for models. If you use both, a light coat of semi-gloss will blend them perfectly. As well a seal the decals.
Navsource is a great place for pictures. <<http://www.navsource.org/archives/subidx.htm >>
Mike K.

Revell makes a good Gato class, Uss Lionfish.

Yea i know i bought that. Like I said before I am an idiot and didnt figure out there were 2 Dace's, one Gato class one Thresher class. Im almost done with the Lionfish (Diesel Dace), and have the Thresher class model (Nuclear Dace) on order.

Very good, post pictures when your done.