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New Sailing ship kits

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
New Sailing ship kits
Posted by millard on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:25 PM
Just got back from the 2005 IPMS Nats in Atlanta.Great show well over 100+ ships on display.Anyway there are a couple of new kits coming available.From Zvezda and injected molded 1/72 ships they are calling a Medievil ship.It really looks like a 1350 Hansa Cog.If I remember right there was something about Hansa on the box.The ship can be made into a full hulled model or a waterline
model.The kit was pretty well detailed.They didn't have a release date in the booth but I would say pretty soon.

Then from Cottage -Industry's already available a 1/96 scale Revenue Cutter called the Alexander Hamiliton.This is and all resin hulled kit. Hull and deck all in one piece of resin.Comes with wood mast and yards, metal fitting.They had a built up one there it was very nice.The kit runs for $ 250.00.Its the only resin sailing ship out there right now.Hopefully more to follow.You can see it at the following web site. www.cottage-industry-models.com/ironclads.htm
Rod
  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Walworth, NY
Posted by Powder Monkey on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:42 PM
That link did not work for me, but this one did.

http://www.cottage-industry-models.com/Alexander%20Hamilton.htm

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:35 AM
The Hamilton looks like a nice kit. I did some research about this class some years back; I might quibble a little about some of the deck furniture, but in general the manufacturer seems to have followed the Chapelle drawings pretty closely. I don't understand why the bottom is that odd, off-white color, though. The original almost unquestionably would have been copper-sheathed.

To really split hairs - the manufacturer is incorrect in claiming that this is the first resin sailing ship model. That honor, I believe, goes to the Model Shipways pilot schooner Phantom. MS has had a solid wood hulled model of that ship in its range for about forty years, but a few years back issued it with a resin hull. Apparently I'm one of the few people who bought one. I guess it didn't sell well; the company took it off the market, and is now selling it with a carved wood hull again. So (to my knowledge, at least) millard is right: this new one from Cottage Industries is the only resin-hulled sailing ship currently on the market.

The price seems mighty steep. The MS Phantom, if I remember right, cost about $50.00. The Hamilton is a bigger and more complex ship, but $250.00 is quite a chunk of change.

A good medieval cog would be an excellent addition to the range of available plastic sailing ship kits. Quite apart from the type's historical importance - which is enormous - it would be a great project for newcomers. I've always suggested that newbies start out with a small ship on a large scale. In recent years it's been tough to find plastic sailing ship kits that meet that description.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 5:11 PM
I stumbled across this while looking for information about the pilot schooner phantom. The latest kit instructions have you fasten the shrouds to the bolts that hold the mast cap together. I would be very surprised to find shrouds attached in any other way than by a siezed eye over the mast. There isn't much out there in the way of rigging details for this schooner, and I'm probably going to use typical methods for the period, and location, unless I can find something definitive.
Any help would be appreciated.
Pete

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 11:28 PM
The best source I know of regarding American pilot schooners is Vol. I of the 2-volume set Pilots, edited by Tom Cunliffe and published by Wooden Boat Publications. It's pretty expensive (though I suspect used copies are floating around by now), but a beautiful, authoritative piece of work. It contains hundreds of photos, paintings, and drawings.

I assume the Phantom plans sumpter250 is using are the same ones that came with the resin-hull kit I bought a couple of years ago. They were drawn back in (I think) the early 1960s by George M. Campbell - one of the best in the business. Mr. Campbell was a marine architect, draftsman, and modeler of vast experience; he knew what he was talking about. (He was, among many other things, the naval architect in charge of the restoration of the clipper ship Cutty Sark.) When it comes to such things as rigging fittings, I think we can trust him completely.

Remember that the Phantom was a small, latter-day sailing schooner. Most of her standing rigging probably was made of wire. By her day the old methods of setting up hemp rigging were on the way out. The structures at the heads of the lower masts are iron clamps, rather than the hefty wood trestletrees and crosstrees that supported the shrouds in earlier eras. The photos in Mr. Cunliffe's book make it pretty clear that Mr. Campbell got it right: the shrouds of such vessels were secured to iron bands with shackles.

I wasn't quite as impressed with the supplementary instruction sheet, which shows some ideas for making the rigging fittings out of wire. Those ideas probably would work all right, and they made sense in the early sixties, but there are better ways to do such things nowadays. The railroad department of a good hobby shop, for instance, can provide beautiful miniature turnbuckles in brass or plastic.

One major item is missing from Mr. Campbell's drawings of the Phantom. A pilot schooner couldn't function without some sort of small boat, which carried the pilots between the schooner and the big ships they were piloting. Mr. Cunliffe's book contains a good drawing of the sort of "pilot canoe" (actually a broad-beamed, square-sterned rowboat) that was used on board Boston pilot schooners, but little if anything about New York ones. (Apparently each port had its distinctive boat types.) I can't claimed to have dug into the primary sources myself, but on the basis of that book I got the impression that not much is known about New York "pilot canoes." That, I suspect, is why the plans of the Phantom don't show one.

The book does explain in some detail how the system worked on board the Boston-based schooners. The canoe sat upside down on a pair of simple wood chocks amidships. It was light enough that two strong-backed apprentices could pick it up, flip it over, and lower it over the side by hand. (The photos don't seem to show any hoisting gear for the purpose.) The apprentices would then have the job of rowing the canoe, with the pilot himself sitting majestically in the stern sheets, over to the incoming or outgoing ship - and the young men had to row him back when the piloting job was finished. I suspect the "canoe" would be towed behind the schooner much of the time.

I liked the resin-hulled MS kit. There were some problems with the hull casting, but none of them was too hard to fix. Some photos of the finished product are on the Drydock Models site: http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/album195 . One of these days I'm going to tackle the problem of building a canoe for it.

Hope this helps a little. Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:50 AM
Millard,

You have the pictures of the ships from the Nats? I know you put the Mayflower in , er right?

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:11 PM
jtilley,
"Pilots" is an excellent source book, I have it, along with most of Howard Chappelle's books, and Harold Underhill"s books. I've also scoured the net looking for photos, and paintings of "Phantom". By the way, she carried her small boat on deck, alnogside the hatch between the fore and main masts.
"America" had a similar rig, though perhaps heavier than Phantom. Several sources described Phantom as having a "light" rig, which explains the single shroud on the main.
Page 105 of "Pilots" has a drawing of the New York pilots yawl. There is also a painting which shows the schooner "Fannie" with two boats on deck.
I have to decide to rig IAW the drawings provided, (actually very good plans) or go with "current practice". The kit was intended as an "entry level kit", so I still have my doubts.
In any case it will be siezed eyes in the standing rigging, spliced eyes in the running rigging, cap irons and mast bands, with shackles and pins. She'll be rigged as right as I can make her.
Thanks for your reply, every bit of information is valuable, and appreciated.
Pete

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:50 PM
Jake
Yes I took pic's.Both video and stills. A friend of mine has them right now.
I did take the 1/60 Trumpeter Mayflower. And my Greek Triera. I don't remember if I took any pic's of my own ships or not.I usually take pic's of everyone else's so I can admire them when I and it also gives me Ideas.

I ended up winning 1st place with the Mayflower in the Sailing class.That was pretty cool.Second place went to Mack Cobb from Atlanta with a Imai Galeass in a water display really nice. Mack was a very nice genteman got to talk a little about our models but not nearly long enough.3rd place went to a Burmese boat I think.I'm doing the Builder a disservice by not remembering.There was all Quality models on dis play
It was best Nats for ships I've very seen.Great models in all classes.
Rod
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:00 AM
I did some research on pilot boats when building Boston's "Dancing Feather" and New York's "John McKeon" for the late Bob Irwin of A.J.Fisher. I used information from two articles on pilot canoes in the Nautical Research Journal by Eric Ronnberg and Rob Napier respectively. If memory serves I believe that, in most cases, the pilot was not picked up from the piloted vessel, but rode it into port. The pilot boat would stay at sea and supply pilotage for as many vessels as they had pilots on board before returning to port. One of the jobs on the pilot boats was "boat keeper" who remained with the boat and sailed it back to port where it picked up the pilots for their next runs.

As I built the prototype models for Fisher I noted they did not include the pilot canoes and I convinced Bob to add them. I furnished scale drawings to be included in subsequent plans in the kit.

Coincidentally, A.J.Fisher kits are returning to the market under the auspices of Bill Partridge of Piels Craftsmen of Newburyport, MA. The first, due September 1st, is "Dancing Feather" in, I believe, 3/16"=1 foot scale. The Mckeon and the Biloxi schooner "Miss Lou" will follow in a couple of months. This is good news for the fans of A.J.Fisher's solid wool hull kits.

Al Blevins
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:03 AM
Rod,

A Very Hardy Congrats on the First Place, maybe one day I'll be there.......... Can't wait to see the pictures.
Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:02 AM
Al Blevins is right about the usual arrangements for pilotage. My earlier post was a little sloppy about that; sorry.

It does seem a shame that MS didn't include any provision for the "canoe" in the Phantom kit or plans. Come to think of it, most other pilot schooner kits, and museum models of pilot schooners, seem to lack small boats. I wonder if part of the reason is aesthetic. Pilot schooners are beautiful vessels, and the inclusion of a rather hefty boat on the deck of such a ship would be less than attractive. But in terms of authenticity, a pilot schooner that wasn't equipped with a boat wouldn't be worth much.

Three cheers for the return of the A.J. Fisher line. I've never built a Fisher kit, but the firm has always had an excellent reputation.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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