Libertys and Victorys

Jeff Herne

Member since
January 2003

Libertys and Victorys

Posted by Jeff Herne on Thursday, November 3, 2005 9:11 AM

Hi guys,

By now, most of you have read the December issue with the USS Sculptor article. I hope you found the story useful and interesting.

I've received quite a few emails from readers, and figured this was the best place to address those emails.

I've received almost a dozen in the last week correcting me regarding my statement that only two Liberty ships remain, the John Brown and Jeremiah O'Brien. In each of the emails, folks have mentioned the Red Oak Victory and Lane Victory as being the other two.

Unfortunately, this is not the case. The Red Oak Victory and Lane Victory are just that Victory – Victory ships.

Although from a distance they look the same, they're an entirely different class of vessel.

EC2-S-C1 Type (Liberty Ships)
• Tonnage
Navy Light: 4,023
M.C. Deadweight: 10,800
Full Load: 14,250
• Dimensions
Length: 441'7"
Beam: 56'11"
Max. Draft: 27'7"
• Machinery
Type: Steam reciprocating engines
Horse Power: 2,500
Top Speed: 11 knots
Cruising radius 17,000 miles
• 1st Navy Commissioning: 1942

VC2-S-AP5 Type (Victory Ships)
• Tonnage
Navy Light: 6,700
M.C. Deadweight: 5,900
Full Load: 14,900
• Dimensions
Length: 436'6"
Beam: 62'
Max. Draft: 28'1"
• Machinery
Type: Turbine engines
Horse Power: 8,500
Top Speed: 17 knots
• 1st Navy Commissioning: 1944

I just thought that I'd point that out, since folks seem to take great pride in correcting me, especially on a ship matter!! Wink [;)]

With my best regards,

Jeff

Reply

subfixer

Member since
March 2004
From: Spartanburg, SC

Posted by subfixer on Thursday, November 3, 2005 9:27 AM

The American Victory is on display in Tampa, Florida for those who might be interested.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Reply

mfsob

Member since
March 2005
From: West Virginia, USA

Posted by mfsob on Thursday, November 3, 2005 12:36 PM

Subfixer beat me to it - the American Victory in Tampa is coming along nicely as a museum ship. I was fortunate enough to be able to take the last harbor cruise in April 2005 along with my Dad, who served on several Victory ships in 1945-46. It was something I will never forget as he once again climbed the ladders to the bridge deck and looked out of the wheelhouse portholes, magically transformed into the skinny 18-year-old kid who got to drive big ships for a living.

http://www.americanvictory.org/ - the next cruise is in a couple of weeks!

Reply

subfixer

Member since
March 2004
From: Spartanburg, SC

Posted by subfixer on Thursday, November 3, 2005 2:06 PM

I am proud to claim Captain John Timmel as my brother. He rescued the American Victory from the torch and founded the American Victory Mariners Memorial and Museum.
(I tought him how to sail... HAH!))

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Reply

Chris Friedenbach

Member since
January 2005

Posted by Chris Friedenbach on Thursday, November 3, 2005 10:03 PM

Jeff,

These sorts of confusions are a constant problem- you often hear talk about Liberty ships being converted to attack transports and escort carriers. The reality is that faster designs were used for these conversions, while the Liberty ships were typically used in roles where slow speed was not an issue.

I have to point out, however, that the readers who notified you that there are four surviving Liberty ships were in fact correct (although not for the reason they thought). It is a little known fact that in addition to the two preserved Liberty ships there are two more or less intact hulls afloat in the James River mothball fleet. One is the nuclear power barge Sturgis, and the other is the Arthur Huddle. A fifth ship (the Navy radar picket ship Protector) was recently scrapped. There are also quite a few parts of Liberty ships that survive as barges and the like.

My only real quibble with the article is a pretty minor one in the history segment- all Liberty ships were under the control of the US Maritime Commission, at least initially. The USMC oversaw the design and construction of ships, and then the actual operation was handled by other organizations (the WSA, USAT, USN, and foreign nations). Other than that a great article and a great build!

One other point to clarify your comparison- the Liberty ship length is the overall length (actually 441’ 6”) while the Victory ship length is the length between perpendiculars. The overall length of Victory ship is 455’ 3”, a bit longer than a Liberty ship.

Regards,

Chris Friedenbach
Crewmember, SS Jeremiah O’Brien

Reply

DURR

Member since
July 2013

Posted by DURR on Saturday, November 5, 2005 9:47 AM

so other than a few minor differences speed was the real difference
would it be safe to say that the extra speed make them a little safer to use for convoy use in sub infested waters

Reply

razordws

Member since
September 2004
From: Vernon, BC, Canada

Posted by razordws on Saturday, November 5, 2005 10:50 AM

I was wondering if anyone here knows of any existing or planned releases for either the Liberty or Victory class ships in 1/700 scale. I know of the Skywave Liberties but have not seen a review of them. Is there anything else out there?

Dave

Reply

Ron Smith

Member since
May 2005

Posted by Ron Smith on Saturday, November 5, 2005 11:32 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by DURR

so other than a few minor differences speed was the real difference
would it be safe to say that the extra speed make them a little safer to use for convoy use in sub infested waters

That's like saying apart from main battery guns there were only a few minor differences between a North Carolina class BB and an Iowa class. The speed difference makes no difference in escorted convoys either, you're only as fast as your slowest ship. The speed difference does come into play when converted to attack transports and CVE/CVL's. Also look at silhouettes of Liberties and Victories, they look more than "minorly" different.

Reply

mfsob

Member since
March 2005
From: West Virginia, USA

Posted by mfsob on Saturday, November 5, 2005 6:57 PM

Loose Cannon Productions has a 1/700 Victory ship in resin, which includes a nice photoetched fret to go with it. I recommend it:
http://home.earthlink.net/~loosecannonproductions/Kit14.html

Reply

Chris Friedenbach

Member since
January 2005

Posted by Chris Friedenbach on Saturday, November 5, 2005 10:52 PM

The Skywave kits are pretty good and are your only option in plastic- the Bootes kit can be used as a basis to represent most Liberty ships, although several details will need to be changed to represent a typical Liberty. Tom’s Modelworks has an excellent resin Liberty ship, and H-P Models also produces resin Liberty ships (I have not seen these kits, but they do offer variants other than the standard Liberty ship).

As Ron pointed out, Liberty ships and Victory ships are really quite different. Even when you get down to the level of simple fittings virtually nothing was common between these classes of ships.

The submarine threat had been greatly reduced by the time the Victory ships came on the scene and speed was not a huge advantage as far as survivability was concerned. The premise behind building Victory ships with increased speed and more modern features was that they would be more suitable for postwar commercial service than the slower Liberty ships.

Regards,

Chris Friedenbach
Broadcasting live from the SS Jeremiah O’Brien

Reply

THE MAGAZINE

CONTACT US

RECENT ARTICLES

POPULAR TOPICS

RECENT REVIEWS

POPULAR TOPICS

RECENT REVIEWS

POPULAR TOPICS

RECENT VIDEOS

POPULAR TOPICS

RECENT THREADS

CATEGORIES

NEW PRODUCTS

OUR STORE

CURRENT ISSUE

SEARCH FINESCALE.COM