Spanish Galleon La Stella

I have seen a 1/200 Golden Hind on Ebay. Heller marked boxes.

 

 

I have also just been given this kit following a lengthy illness.  I have never heard of this ship.  Does anyone know anything about her?

Bill Morrison

Hate to tell you guys this, but 'La Stella' is a very rough approximation of a Spanish Galleon, and I have a lot of very harsh comments about it in the past.  As for the 'Golden Hind,' I have heard better reports, but the Airfix version is far superior.....

Yes

La Stella is attractive but is a caricature of a galleon, the deck arrangement is pure imagination, and the water line and beak are set much to low and the guns are half a century to early.  It is an old Heller kit and some kit bashing it can be made into a fair approximation of a galleon.  Heller used common parts for this and several other galleons and galleasses.

Thank you all for your comments.  I have the same observations.  It looks like this kit will go to the spare parts bin.  One additional comment about many of the Heller sailing ships . . . have you ever noticed the lack of planking detail below the waterline?

Bill Morrison

yeah i noiced this on my Royal Louis and thought it was kind of silly.

There's a practical reason for the lack of planking detail below the waterline on Heller kits.  (Several other companies have, as a matter of fact, done the same thing; some of the old Aurora ones come to mind.) 

As the planking turns under the bilge, the joints between the planks become almost vertical.  The manufacturer has to choose between representing the edges of the planks with countersunk grooves or raised lines.  Either way, if the hull is molded in port and starboard halves, the "plank edges" on the hull below the turn of the bilge can't be reproduced accurately without undercutting - which isn't possible in a two-piece rigid mold.  In other words, if the grooves or raised lines were indicated below the waterline the same way they are above it, the hull half wouldn't come out of the mold.  That's one of the inherent limitations of the injection-molding process.

It's instructive to look at how various manufacturers have confronted this problem over the decades.  On the Revell Viking ship I'm working on at the moment (one of my favorite plastic sailing ship kits), the edges of the planks in its clinker-built hull grow more and more indistinct as they round the bilge; if you look carefully at how they're designed in cross-section, you can see how the hull halves were ejected from the mold.  (Such was the ingenuity of the designers that the slightly distorted and "blurry" planking detail is almost completely in shadow on the finished model.)  That same "softening" of detail can be seen in the planking and "copper sheathing" detail on lots of the old Revell and Airfix kits.  And sometimes the artisans making the masters managed to carve countersunk planking lines (or raised nail heads) in such a way that they didn't require undercutting.  (The greater the deadrise in the hull's cross-section, the more practicable that approach would be.)

Heller's approach - leaving off all the detail below the waterline - was pretty harsh but, in practical terms, it worked.  A good, weathered paint job can go a long way toward hiding the inconsistency between the above- and below-water details.  Or if the original ship was copper-sheathed, you can consider reproducing the copper yourself. 

The Revell Golden Hind has appeared in a number of boxes and under a number of labels; I think the kit of that name that recently appeared in a Heller box is this one.  The "1/200" label is wrong (manufacturers make goofs like that pretty frequently with plastic sailing ship kits); the kit is on 1/96 scale.  I haven't got the Airfix one with which to compare it, but the Revell version, in my opinion, is one of the very best sailing ship kits ever.  A Forum search on the phrase "Revell Golden Hind" should yield some lengthy discussions of it.

For the record - ship terminology in the sixteenth century was pretty casual, and the word "galleon" was used pretty sloppily.  But it generally referred to ships that were considerably bigger than the Golden Hind.  To call her a "galleon" is a bit of a stretch.

The kit seems to be pretty typical for the time it was made.  

woodburner wrote:

The lack of planking detail below the waterline can actually be an advantage. Covered with layers of tallow, the planking detail is obscured. So there is no real need for it as a result on a model, even though its nice when models include it. My artitec kit for a Dutch Statenjacht has the tallowed section below the waterline clearly delineated with the lack of planking, and in fact the plain tallowed area is raised slightly to represent the coating. Artitec knows its stuff, and Heller is shaby at times when it comes to details either. Too bad the Stella is a junker, but most galleon models are. However there are exceptions, and here's my list: Airfix Wasa, based on the surviving ship (hard to beat that!) with excellent detail. It represents the initial reconstruction of Wasa from evidence, and small refinements have been made since, easy to modify. And the model is just beautifully made, complete with bolt detail. Its a real ship. P.S: What Heller sells as Revenge appears as the Elizabeth Jonas of 1600 in the Science Museum of South Kensington. P.S: What Heller sells as revenge appears as the Elizabeth Jonas of 1600 in the Sicence Museum of South Kensington. Revell Batavia, based on a modern, scholarly reconstruction, and reference to Wasa (built at the same time) and contemporary works by 17th century authers. It has elements of Wasa, the drawings of Nicholas Hollar, and some nicely done carving work. Airfix Revenge, extrapolated from works by Matthew Baker and contempoary drawings, perhaps too large and grand for the actual Revenge of 1577, but very true in spirit to a 1590 era large English galleon over 500 tons burden, in having half, quarter and poop decks and railing forms more akin to the 1590s era. Based also on the London Science Museum model, although different in many respects (addition of quarterdeck, less Baker style railings). I think that for a galleon, the Airfix Revenge is absolutely the best and most sincere representation, with the 17th century Dutch design vessels right alongside. Jim

Well, Jim I must object to your selection of the best galleon model in styrene. Imai's 1/100 Spanish Galleon is one of the best plastic model kits I ever saw and possibly is the most accurate galleon model both in styrene and wood. there are pictures of it posted to the forum already. Aoshima re-released it but a bit pricey as usual.

I'm inclined to agree that the old Airfix Revenge (the larger of the company's two versions of that ship) is the best plastic representation of an English galleon.  Unfortunately the kit has been off the market for a good many years, but if you can find one it's certainly worth snapping up. 

Applying the label "galleon" to either the Wasa or the Batavia is a bit of a stretch, though the term has been used so casually over the years that I wouldn't want to argue the point too far. In any case, the Airfix Wasa is one of my favorites - and it's currently available at a relatively reasonable price.  I've never encountered the Revell Batavia "in the flesh," but on the basis of photos it certainly looks like a nice kit.  Unfortunately it's not in Revell's current catalog. 

I've never bought the Imai "Spanish Galleon" either, but I have the impression that, like most Imai products, it's among the best.  On the basis of photos I'd go so far as to say it's just about the only "Spanish galleon" kit (plastic or wood) I'm aware of that looks like a reasonable scale model.  And since it's actually available (in its reissued form from Aoshima) it certainly belongs in this discussion.  I just wish those Aoshima prices weren't so high. 

Lusci was active in Italy during the '60s I think.  

woodburner wrote:

Hallo kapudan, I thought about the Imai Spanish galleon as well, and its quite good in many respects. Its well molded, and like all Imai products, friendly to build. The Imai Spanish galleon is based on plans drawn by Vincente Lusci, which he called "Spanish Galleon of 1607." The date refers to the Battle of Gibralter, apparently, and the overall form is good. However it appears to have three gundecks, and photos of a model seem to confirm this. Two dedicated gundecks and a row of guns above. Hmmm. Later Spanish ships had this many guns, but my impression is that the English had was the first three decker, in 1610. So I left it off as I'm not sure that its accurate, at least to 1607. Of course we could call it a Spanish galleon of a slightly later period! John, I agree with you, Wasa and Batavia are respectively a regelskeppet and retourschip, not galleons. So they are not listed as galleons, but as large, galleon size ships in the later end of the galleon era, available in quality models. Jim

Jim, thank your very much for your information. Are Lusci's plans commercially avaliable ?

My sample of Imai galleon has just two short gundecks and four light wrought iron breechloaders on the upper deck. Angus Konstam's "Spanish Galleon" from Osprey Publishing has many pictures showing spanish galleons with a similar gun arrangement though I'm not knowledgeable enough on the era to argue about accuracy.

and as a little note, exactly the same ship sold by Airfix as the "Revenge" is on show at the Science Museum of South Kensington as the "Elizabeth Jonas" from 1601. here is a link to the photo:

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10266059

jtilley wrote:

I've never bought the Imai "Spanish Galleon" either, but I have the impression that, like most Imai products, it's among the best.  On the basis of photos I'd go so far as to say it's just about the only "Spanish galleon" kit (plastic or wood) I'm aware of that looks like a reasonable scale model.  And since it's actually available (in its reissued form from Aoshima) it certainly belongs in this discussion.  I just wish those Aoshima prices weren't so high.

I paid 100 $ to it professor :/ certainly high for a well designed nevertheless medium size and few parts model. If you don't mind buying pirated stuff, CC Lee of China sells a pirated copy of Imai Galleon for around 40 $

Did you ever get that Portuguese Carrack?

  

 The Heller Stella might be a little off, but it is certainly based on this artwork:

 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:ArkRoyal.jpg

The Heller guys just changed their ship to a fictitious Spanish origin, maybe they were not convinced by their own hull lines and proportions, which were derived from the rowed Galleon "Corona Aurea" of about 1550 (hence the old fashioned guns). 

I am not sure if the Heller galleons are to be condemned as totally inaccurate. From what I see, everybody seems to have in mind that EVERY English galleon has to look like a Baker design and EVERY Spanish one like the Lusci plans which were regarded as questionable even twenty years ago. Why shouldn´t a very big and heavy Spanish Galleon have had a more shallow draught than a Revenge and, as a result, a lower sitting "beak" ? 

I do not say that Galion, Corona/Elizabethan and Stella are authentic renditions of actual ships, but I found them reasonable enough to collect them. Maybe they reflect a "romanticised" and exaggerated interpretation of galleons that was more fashionable in past, less well informed decades ("Corona" with its eight turrets looks lndeed like 19th century paintings of "Great Harry" to me), but I still like those models for what they are. They are certainly more seaworthy than Revells big Spanish Galleon. 

 

Yes, I think these kits are very much in line with the fantasized imagery of Hollywood, particularly such films as 'The Seahawk' with Errol Flynn.  In fact, it seems to me that the Aurora/Heller 'La Stella de Norte' is a quite good rendition of a Spanish galease depicted in that movie!  Also, it is important to remember that a galease and a galleon are actually quite different ships, the galease being largely propelled by oars (a very heavily built up galley, and thus relatively shoal-drafted, but with a lot more gunpower, first used at Lepanto with great effect), while the galleon is pretty much exclusively a sail-driven vessel, which is taller, deeper, and stouter.  As far as accuracy is concerned, well, yes, they are accurate as far as 1930's-1950's Hollywood is concerned, but I wouldn't go much further than that!  Neither ship type has much to do with 'Henri Grace A Dieu' (Great Harry) which is something along the lines of a carrack, and of course, it is important to remember that towers and other such fripperies were common to a lot of large warships of the day, and not just the 'Ark Royal.'

Hallo kapudan,

Yes, Lusci's plans are available, for several ships including the "Spanish Galleon of 1607" as his "Revenge." You can get them from a firm in Italy. I'm away from my desk, but try a internet search using the terms Lusci, galleon and Revenge.

Lusci's "Revenge"appears to be the exact same design as the Science Museum model, so much so that I think he either copied their reconstruction completely, or modified it only slightly. Its a very good reconstruction, with finer lines than the Hoeckel reconstruction. Both are based on the famous Matthew Baker drawing of a large, four masted galleon, but with a stern gallery added.

The Baker drawing represents a ship of 546 tons burden or slightly larger, with a half deck, quarter deck and poop deck. Its larger than the actual Revenge by about 100 tons burden, and probably one or maybe two of the aftercastle decks. This is why the science Museum suggested that the drawing represented a larger ship, the Elizabeth Jonas, as she was rebuilt later in her career. However the decoration in Baker's drawing is too old fashioned for the rebuilt Jonas - in fact the drawing represents a ship much closer in size to the Victory and Ark Royal, although the Ark Royal, I think, had a two deck forecastle.

For some reason, the Science Museum omitted the quarter deck on their reconstruction, which is clearly evident in the Baker drawing. Daeffler's new work on the forms and design of Elizabethan and Jacobean warships correctly reconstructs this drawing with the quarter deck. Airfix, to its credit, also added the quarterdeck, although the resulting ship (and Baker's drawing) is too large for the actual Revenge. This is why its a great large ship, perhaps Victory is something like that, if not Revenge.

But back to Spanish galleons.

The Konstam book is a handy reference for Atlantic operations (curiously, no Pacific) but nearly all of the reconstructions are useless, and at least one of the images - an English galleon, with the coat of arms of Englad clearly evident on its stern - is labeled a Spanish warship. Of the reconstructions, only the first and the last are reliable. This is because the first is based on data from a shipwreck excavated by professional scholars, and the last is from a later era too well known to make serious mistakes, although it looks suspiciously Dutch. I didnt see any images of Spanish ships with the gun deck arrangement used in Lusci's plans, either in the book or elsewhere, however.

I think the main point is one mentioned elsewhere in this thread, that there are a lot of suspect older reconstructions which can look good but contain serious flaws. We can respect what they did, and also look for better information.

Jim

One thing that really perturbs me about this kit, though, are the grossly undersized spars and sails, along with there being no attempt at providing blocks.

Bill Morrison