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Hellers Golden Hind ??

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 22, 2005 6:10 PM

Jtilley wrote :

I'm pretty sure that at least one kit in the current Revell Germany catalog, the 1/150 Gorch Fock, is a reboxing of a Heller kit.

You're right.

And, don't forget, Heller Golden Hind is also available in a "pirates & corsaires" box.

http://www.moduni.de/product_info.php/products_id/1552703

And, funny, if you look at this other boxart fopr the "pirates & corsaires" box, the model is the "Stella" (or Corona)

http://www.hobby57.com/fiche.asp?article=28527

Michel

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Thursday, December 22, 2005 5:50 PM

Thank you very much for that wealth of information - this is great ! I think that this is quite bizarre, as I thought (as your are laughing) that I was getting something a little more up-to-date than buying something that has a mold made at the time I was born (1957). It is also interesting to me as to how much knowledge of the history of all of this is as well that you have.

Thanks again jtilley

I am wanting to submit my JR to the FSM for readers review, however, I am sure that they will enter the model as to how "not" to built a JR -Clown [:o)]

At any rate, I am happy with my ship and that is all that matters I guess. My wife and I are going to be the only ones that admire it, unless it does get published.

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:28 PM

Donnie - Plastic models are made in rigid steel molds, which cost staggering amounts of money and seem to enjoy Eternal Life.  They get used over and over again for years.  (Revell's first ship model was a 1/535-scale U.S.S. Missouri, first issued in 1954.  It's still in the Revell-Monogram catalog.  Apparently the company dusts off the molds periodically and squirts out a few thousand more kits from them.)  As the molds age they do show wear in various ways - most notably in the form of "flash" where the parts of the mold don't quite fit together any more.  But it takes many years, and thousands of moldings, for a mold actually to wear out.

The vast majority of sailing ship kits currently on the market are made from extremely old molds.  Revell, for example, produced its last genuinely new sailing ship (a nice replica of a Viking ship) in 1977.  And that "Jolly Roger" you're building is, as we've discussed, a reissue of La Flore, which dates from the late sixties or early seventies (I'm not sure which).

Molds also change names.  Sometimes a company goes out of business, and some other firm acquires the molds.  (Many of the sailing ship kits currently being sold under the Lindberg label were originally produced by a company called Pyro in the fifties and sixties.)  And companies share molds, usually for different markets.  In the case of the Golden Hind, I think what happened may have been that Heller made an arrangement with Revell to distribute some of the latter's kits in continental Europe.  Why Revell chose not to use its own European distribution system for that purpose at that time, I have no idea.  But several Revell kits turned up in Heller boxes.  The reverse has also been the case more than once.  I'm pretty sure that at least one kit in the current Revell Germany catalog, the 1/150 Gorch Fock, is a reboxing of a Heller kit.  Things get especially confusing when two companies make different models of the same kit, and then work out agreements with each other.  Revell produced a Santa Maria back in 1956.  Heller made one that was about the same size, but (I think) a completely different kit, in the late sixties.  At this point, if I saw a Heller or Revell Germany box with the name Santa Maria on it sitting on a shelf in a hobby shop, I wouldn't want to place a bet on which kit was inside.

Nowadays molds seem to be migrating around the world of kit manufacturers at breathtaking speeds.  The current Revell Germany aircraft model catalog, for instance, includes kits that orginated with Revell, Matchbox, Frog, Aurora, Hasegawa, Italeri - and probably a couple of more that I'm not aware of.  Some of those kits represent the current state of the art.  Others were far from the best on the market when they first appeared - thirty or forty years ago.  Let the buyer beware.

Katzennahrung - In another thread we've been discussing the bizarre history of shrouds and ratlines in Revell sailing ship kits.  The Golden Hind that I have is from the original 1965 issue, and has (or had, before I made the obligatory sacrifice to the trash can) plastic-coated-thread shrouds and ratlines.  I believe more recent issues of the kit in Revell boxes had injection-molded plastic shrouds and ratlines; I imagine the version in the Heller box does too.  The finished model in the pictures posted by Donnie has thread shrouds and ratlines, obviously rigged by the modeler.  He also seems to have replaced the plastic deadeyes (and, more importantly, the plastic "rope" lanyards between them).  The improvement is obvious. 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 6:33 AM
I can't help but it seems one of the Heller images shows the shrouds as being made of plastic (what is typical for some Revell kits). The last image in the (original post) row shows the Heller ship with "self-made" shrouds, isn't it?

Regards,
Katzennahrung
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, December 19, 2005 5:00 PM
Well, that shows how much I know ( nothing ) Confused [%-)] I was under the impression that these companies were still making models and stamping out the parts. OR are you saying that the model "template" has not changed, but they are still stamping out parts (?)

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, December 19, 2005 2:15 PM

I can't tell much from the boxtop painting, but that series of photos of the built-up model definitely shows the old Revell kit (the same one I've got).  Its availability - in any box - is good news.

Somebody has screwed up the scale.  There's no way that model is on 1/200 scale.  The Revell kit is on 1/96 (1/8" = 1').  I wonder if Heller, for some reason, has removed those wonderful crew figures from the kit.  On 1/200 scale they'd be about twelve feet tall.  (In another thread today we had a brief discussion of how model companies are wont to mess up things like this.  I suspect the people running Heller today have no idea how to figure out the scale of a kit like that.)

The parts count (over 300) is a little deceptive.  Over a hundred of them are rigging blocks.  They're not bad, but kind of bulky and blobby for a ship like this on this scale.  My intention is to use aftermarket Britannia metal ones from Bluejacket ( www.bluejacketinc.com ). 

Under any label, this is one of the best plastic sailing ship kits on the market.  It's also a pretty good choice for a second project.  I strongly recommend it.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Hellers Golden Hind ??
Posted by Donnie on Monday, December 19, 2005 1:27 PM

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

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