SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Issac Hull Constitution Model

2207 views
13 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Issac Hull Constitution Model
Posted by schoonerbumm on Friday, December 30, 2005 2:49 PM

Here are a couple of shots of the Hull / Peabody Museum Model.  As mentioned in the running rigging post, the 'AOS Constitution' rigging plan is not consistent with the Hull Model or the Nautical Research Guild belaying plan.  These photos show the fore topsail braces leading down the main mast (as in the NRG plan) and not down the main stay as shown in the 'AOS Constitution.

 

 

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    September 2003
Posted by Leftie on Friday, December 30, 2005 5:22 PM

  Schoonerbumm,

        I was just about to post a question about the Hull model. So many talk about it but its hard to find photos of it. Thanks! You wouldn't happen to have any more would you?

       And yes, I'm in the early stages of my first 'Tall Ship' build.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, December 30, 2005 8:39 PM
Something seems to be wrong here.  I'd like to see those Hull model pictures, but I can't.  In all Schoonerbum's recent posts in which he's included pictures, what shows up on my computer is a rectangle with some sort of symbol in it and the words "Remote linking of images not allowed."  Is this phenomenon unique to my computer?  Or is there some error in the way I've set up my Forum membership?

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 30, 2005 8:56 PM

 jtilley wrote:
Something seems to be wrong here.  I'd like to see those Hull model pictures, but I can't.  In all Schoonerbum's recent posts in which he's included pictures, what shows up on my computer is a rectangle with some sort of symbol in it and the words "Remote linking of images not allowed."  Is this phenomenon unique to my computer?  Or is there some error in the way I've set up my Forum membership?

 

No JT, it's me as well, it could be that your pc is set up securley, what firewall do you use? or more likely that the site he is hot linking to, does not allow it.

It is wrong to hotlink as it uses their bandwidth while showing you the image on another site. It is simply more appropriate to either host the image here(not possible) or host it yourself which would require permission in an ideal world.

Not sure why FSM won't host images, is there not a gallery option?

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Posted by schoonerbumm on Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:51 AM

I don't know what is happening. The photos are showing up on my laptop,but when I tried to open them on the Museum computer I get the Bravenet symbol and the 'Remote imaging' message. Based on responses it appears that some people are able to see the photos and some can't. 

The symbol is the Bravenet logo. I went there yesterday based on instructions from this forum for placing images on the web and loaded the images there. It appears that their site is blocking the images to some computeres, but not all.

Dr. Tilley and vapochilled... were you able to view the furled sails and belaying pin pictures on the FSM posts? they are on the same site.

If anyone can't see the photos here, go to http://resolutionslog.bravehost.com/index.html

 

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    September 2003
Posted by Leftie on Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:02 AM

 Its easy to see the photos. Just right click and go down to properties and the type in the address. It worked for me. http://resolutionslog.bravehost.com/myPictures/fwd%20stbd.JPG

                         http://resolutionslog.bravehost.com/myPictures/fore%20braces.jpg

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, December 31, 2005 8:00 AM

Bravenet seems to be keeping all pictures from Schoonerbum - and nobody else - out of my computer.  The suggestion offered by Leftie didn't work; all it gave me was a bigger version of the Bravenet symbol and "Remote linking of images not allowed."

Ah, the wonders of the computer age.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Walworth, NY
Posted by Powder Monkey on Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:05 PM
 jtilley wrote:

Bravenet seems to be keeping all pictures from Schoonerbum - and nobody else - out of my computer.  The suggestion offered by Leftie didn't work; all it gave me was a bigger version of the Bravenet symbol and "Remote linking of images not allowed."


I get the same thing on both my home and work computers.

  • Member since
    September 2003
Posted by Leftie on Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:40 PM
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Posted by schoonerbumm on Saturday, December 31, 2005 5:25 PM

I've posted the Lady Washington and Constitution photos at:

http://resolutionslog.bravehost.com/index.html

I'll start using that location to put up photos from now on. Currently there are two pages of photos.

I'm removing my e-mail address from the profiles after the 'spamalanche' that started yesterday.

Thanks to Leftie for his assistance.

 

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, January 1, 2006 2:28 AM

That worked; many thanks.

The photos of the "Hull model" are good enough to clear up quite a few points about its rigging.  The leads of the fore and fore topsail braces, which we discussed in another thread, are pretty clear.  I'm also interested in the way the first shrouds on the fore and main lower masts are rigged.  The sheer pole and all the ratlines (all of them - not just five out of six) stop short of the first shroud.  That arrangement is consistent with my earlier suggestion that the shroud was slacked off when the ship was working to windward.  I suppose some other explanation is possible, but off the top of my head I can't think of one.

This is a fascinating model.  The contrast in workmanship and accuracy between the deck and hull, on one hand, and the rigging on the other is really remarkable.  It looks like at least two people worked on the model.  The poor guy who did the hull and deck furniture apparently didn't have much to work with in terms of tools or materials.  Some of the fittings apparently were beyond his capacity.  (The ship must have had a steering wheel, and it seems likely that she had a bell somewhere.)  And he apparently had three pots of paint at his disposal:  black, white, and green.  (The color scheme, such as it is, is fairly consistent with known contemporary practice - though I do wonder about the white studdingsail booms.)  My guess is that building the hull and fittings of that model took a few weeks at the most.  The guy who did the rigging, on the other hand, was a deft-fingered expert who must have spent months on the project.  The care with which he varied the diameters of the lines, and executed the various seizings, is really remarkable.

I recall reading somewhere a story to the effect that, at a banquet shortly after the War of 1812, the model got floated in a large bowl of punch (or maybe it was champagne) and tiny charges of gunpowder in the guns got ignited.  Whether that's true or not I have no idea - but if it is, it might explain at least some of the discrepancy in quality.  Maybe those primitive guns we're looking at are replacements of superior originals.

This thing has to be one of the most interesting and historically important ship models in the U.S.  Some journal really ought to publish a thoroughly-researched and illustrated article about it.  I haven't been to the Peabody-Essex Museum in several years, but I have the general impression that the institution doesn't emphasize its maritime collections quite as much as it used to.  That's a shame - though admittedly its anthropological and art collections are spectacular too.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Posted by schoonerbumm on Sunday, January 1, 2006 9:06 PM

now Dr. Tilley has triggered a rant.... 

I understand that the Peabody got a $75 million endowment from a patron who loves oriental art, and now maritime floorspace is giving way to oriental art. And it was rumored this summer that they were trying to sell the Phillips Library to Harvard. Going through the Phillips, it looked as if (confirmed by a librarian) that they have ceased expanding the maritime collection. In my discussions with the 'next door' maritime arts and model galleries, their relationships with the Peabody 'are strained'.       

Over the last two years, I have visited over 20 maritime museums and countless galleries in France, the UK and the US to learn about the maritime museum 'business'.  The changes at the Peabody seem to be symptomatic of problems faced by most maritime museums. 

Museums are only as good as their endowments and staff.  Big donors with an interest in maritime subjects are getting fewer and farther between. State and Federal governments seem to favor 'politically correct' organizations. (even Mystic is featuring historical fantasies such as  female whaling crew members, slave ships with female captains etc.)  Directors and Staff members are usually hired based on their ability to solicit money, not their knowledge or interest in maritime matters. Of course they then find money from donors with other interests.. and desires to see those interests reflected in the displays. Existing maritime endowments are even getting 'pirated' for other uses.

So what can you do?  Get involved. If you have a rich uncle who is 'queer on ships' get him to leave his money to a museum instead of you.

If you don't, donate some of your modeling time and volunteer in a museum. The primary source of knowledge in most maritime museums, now, is the volunteer staff (to quote a renowned expert, 'most museums no longer hire professional curators').  Better museums recognize and utilize this (the volunteer coordinator in one extremely well run museum claimed "the staff runs the upstairs and we run the downstairs"). In many cases, the volunteer staff is the only force fighting to maintain the maritime character in museums. Don't let a director, who was a former Real Estate agent, throw out priceless treasures (true story - she didn't have a clue what the stuff that "looked like it came from Cost Plus" was - a collection of builder's half hulls from the 1830s-40s was saved by a volunteer.... at least she asked).

There is a tremendous amount of knowledge flowing through FSM and other forums. It would be great to channel some of it into our historic institutions.

 

 

      

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, January 1, 2006 9:51 PM

I didn't intend to trigger a rant - and I can't claim any understanding of what's actually going on in Salem - but I certainly sympathize with Schoonerbum's basic sentiments.  I no longer go near the joint where I used to work (in Newport News, Virginia).  My wife is convinced that my blood pressure goes up every time we even drive by the place.

Another institution that worries me in this context is the Smithsonian.  Those of us with fairly long memories can recall the military history section on the third floor of the National Museum of American History.  In tems of exhibition techniques, graphics, interactive exhibits, etc. it didn't amount to much; military historians complained for years that the Smithsonian wasn't doing justice to the armed forces.  I think those critics were right.  But one thing that old gallery did have going for it was a fine collection of ship models. Whenever I went to Washington I made it a point to stop by and admire Bob Bruckshaw's Revolutionary War frigates, the big commissioned Constitution and Constellation, and those wonderful old "builders' models" of late-nineteenth- and twentieth-century warships.  That 1/48-scale Missouri, complete with the surrender table and chairs, blew my socks off the first time I saw it and continued to impress me twenty years later.

A few months ago I took a tour of the Smithsonian's new, state-of-the-art, permanent exhibition "The Price of Freedom:  The History of America's Wars."  From my standpoint as a military historian and an instructor of museum studies courses I regard that exhibition as excellent in almost every respect.  It covers the topic about as comprehensively as the available space would permit, contains some real blockbuster artifacts, and manages to address some contoversial topics intelligently without taking political positions on them.  (I believe it's the first major exhibition in the U.S. to undertake a comprehensive overview of the Vietnam War - and to my notion does a good job of it.)  And the designers did an outstanding job of presenting the artifacts in interesting and unusual ways.  (Who else would have thought of hanging a WWII Jeep from the ceiling?)  But almost all the ship models are gone.  The exhibition design profession is extremely sensitive to trends and fads - and it seems ship models just aren't "in" at the moment.

Down on the ground floor of the same building is the "Hall of Maritime Enterprise," which covers the civilian aspects of maritime history.  I recall when that one opened - in the late seventies, if I remember correctly.  It's looking a little long in the tooth these days, but, again, it contains a fine model collection (though just a fraction of the total number of models the late, great Howard I. Chapelle collected and commissioned during his tenure at the Smithsonian).  Standing at the entrance of the gallery, as of last June, was a sign annoucing that the whole thing is slated for a major renovation within the next year or two.  I do wonder what it will look like when the new generation of designers and curators gets done with it.  Anybody who's interested in the Smithsonian's model collection would be well advised to look at it ASAP, before any more of the models get consigned to the storerooms.

There's another side to the coin, a drive of less than an hour from DC.  Anybody with any interest whatever in ship models needs to take a trip to Annapolis and visit the (relatively) new ship model gallery in the basement of the Naval Academy Museum.  On exhibition there is one of the two or three finest collections of contemporary seventeenth- and eighteenth-century ship models in the world.  The exhibit facility, in terms of lighting, cases, etc., is outstanding.  There's even a big plate glass window through which the visitor can watch the conservator working on the models.  That's one museum that still understands the value and beauty of ship models.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 10:30 PM
I'm "replying" to get this thread moved to p. 1.  The topic has come up in a recent post.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.