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Paint-job. Decks, old & new?

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  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Pennsylvania (big state)
Paint-job. Decks, old & new?
Posted by Big Ole Bob on Sunday, January 1, 2006 11:32 PM

In scouring the net for photographs for the uss constitution as well as the hms victory I've found a peculiar painting prefference for models of these ships.

That is to paint the deck with a 'new' or light brown/tan paint color "wood tone". This even holds true when a lot of painters are going for a more 'realistic' paintjob with green walls, etc etc. But the deck ends up a light tan/brown instead of the raw-umber/black/wood coloring.

Does anyone have a nicely done revell model painted with that kind of color scheme? The dark deck instead of the fresh wood deck?

B.O.B.

If you can think it. Then someone has else has also thought of it. Then someone else has tried it. Then someone else tried and completed it. Then someone else tried and proved it CANT BE DONE!
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Sunday, January 1, 2006 11:45 PM
B.O.B.
are you going to post images of your progress?

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by MagicSteve on Monday, January 2, 2006 12:08 AM
Is the deck dry or wet? 
  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Pennsylvania (big state)
Posted by Big Ole Bob on Monday, January 2, 2006 8:20 AM

In reguards to deck color & Realism I've found that the deck of the constitution is a raw umber color dry or wet. almost black when wet. lighter dry but still definately a dark brown/raw umber coloring. (I rexamined the photos of the real thing last night when compareing paint colors to the auctual item.

Yes I'll post pictures. I'm just in the material and information gathering stage. I've discovered that the local hobby shop i've been shoping at is auctually a small offshoot of their primary branch thats much much bigger. Also only a few miles away as well.

Oops. Went there today. I was lead by Miss Information. Still only one small hobby shop.

B.O.B.

If you can think it. Then someone has else has also thought of it. Then someone else has tried it. Then someone else tried and completed it. Then someone else tried and proved it CANT BE DONE!
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, January 2, 2006 9:39 AM

Studying photos of the real thing is, of course, an excellent idea - but take everything you see with a large grain of salt.  The people responsible for restoring and maintaining the Constitution know what they're doing, but they have to take all sorts of things other than authenticity into consideration.  She's no longer a warship; she's a tourist attraction.  That fact has all sorts of implications in terms of her upkeep and appearance.

The deck planking of that ship has been replaced several times since she was built, and I'm pretty sure the current stuff bears little resemblance to the original.  On another website not too long ago somebody posted some pictures he'd taken on board her.  It was pretty clear that a considerable area of the spar deck near the mainmast had been painted black.  (I can't imagine why, but I imagine there was a good reason.)  There's just no way that was the case during the War of 1812.

We had a discussion in another thread recently about deck colors for sailing ships.  My own opinion, for what little it's worth, is that there's plenty of room in subjects like this for artistic license and personal taste.  But it's always a good idea, I think, to start out (if possible) with an understanding of what the real thing looked like.

If I'm not mistaken, the Constitution's original deck planking was either pine or fir.  When freshly cut, both of those woods are a pale, greyish beige with a slight yellowish tinge.  Generally speaking the planking was left unfinished; it didn't get any oil or varnish.  (The idea was to provide an un-slippery footing for the hundreds of men who had to walk on it.)  The daily maintenance routine during the ship's active service included "holystoning" - scrubbing the planking with salt water and blocks of pumice ("holystones").  And of course it would be subjected constantly to rain, salt water, sunlight, and the pressure of shoes and bare feet.

Historical novels are fond of referring to the "snow white decks" of sailing warships.  I have my doubts about how "white" they actually were; I've never seen a bare wood deck myself that could reasonably be described as white, and marine artists rarely if ever show them that way.  My personal taste runs toward a pale grey with a hint of beige.  (The background color for these Forum pages is, to my notion, in the right neighborhood, though a trifle dark)  For wood decks I like to use holly (which is almost pure white, and has a wonderfully fine grain that actually looks like miniature wood), with a very light coat of "Driftwood" colored stain.  For painting plastic to look like deck planking, I like a color in the PolyScale acrylic hobby paint range called "weathered concrete."

Hope that helps a little.  But don't leave your own ideas and taste out of the picture.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Pennsylvania (big state)
Posted by Big Ole Bob on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 12:14 AM

Still seeking a photo of a Plastic Constitution model done with a deck painted like that.
Even a 1/196 Constitution done with a paint scheme matching the current real ship would be usefull to see how it comes out on a scale model.

I was thinking about why they might paint the deck black and it occured to me. In my old school on many a steps is a surface. aparently a black adhesive with a fine grit on top for traction. Perhaps back in the 50's and 60's they used this traction material as a deck coating. Of course once painted or stained black wood never comes back to its white appearance.

Looking at the USS CONSTELLATION home page they practically rebuilt her. Shaved off worn surfaces on old planks and in the process dissasembled and rebuilt her completely. By the looks of pictures of the reconstruction it looks as if they completely rebuilt her. the most important thing to me is the deck. It's as Jtilley mentioned. They left it bare but weathered a pale grey wood. Like a home deck left out to 'weather'. On the other hand the inside walls of the ship were painted White instead of Green. Anywaaayys...

Just out of curiosity what do you guys think I should do.
(curiosity will be my downfall one of these days)
 Sorta a Vote thingy.
Gimmie a short one liner of explanation..
A. Weather washed wood 'pale grey'
B. Black Stained wood
C. Brown/tan wood?

If you can think it. Then someone has else has also thought of it. Then someone else has tried it. Then someone else tried and completed it. Then someone else tried and proved it CANT BE DONE!
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 12:44 AM

I vote for A - because my natural instinct is to try to make models look as much like the real thing as I can.  I'd start with either a grey or that PolyScale "concrete" color I mentioned earlier.  I'd be sure it had a noticeable tan cast to it, though; a pure grey made from just black and white wouldn't look right to my eye.

The Revell kit doesn't represent the Constitution as she appears today.  It's based on a model that was commissioned by the Smithsonian Institutions, back in the fifties or early sixties (I think), to represent her configuration as of 1814.  There are lots of differences, the most conspicuous perhaps being the decorations on the transom.  Research done over the last fifty years has cast some doubt on some of the kit's details, but in my opinion it holds up remarkably well.  The gentleman who did the plans for the Smithsonian model, George Campbell, was one of the best in the business.

The Constellation is one of the more complicated - and controversial - stories in the historic ship preservation world.  That poor ship has undergone a great deal of well-intentioned abuse over the years, and scarcely any of the visible fabric is original.  The people in charge of her nowadays know what they're doing, and are treating her with the respect she deserves.  But in order simply to keep her from falling apart they've had to make some major compromises with historical accuracy.

The bottom line in all this, of course, is that it's your model and your choice.  One attraction of the sailing ship modeling field, to me at least, has always been that it offers plenty of room for artistic license and interpretation.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Pennsylvania (big state)
Posted by Big Ole Bob on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 10:15 PM

Chuck Fan's photos of his HMS Victory have the grey/beige weatherd look to them. It gives me a nice idea of what I might expect If i did the constitution that way.  I think I've decided.

Grey weathered is too black & white like too polorizeing. too much contrast for me.

Fresh wood is too light pine like to mee. verry unrealistic for the weathered look im going for.

Black/stain is like grey. just toooo much.

I've decided on a DARK WOOD TONE.. definately testors acrylic 'leather' with a 'raw umber' wash. perhaps a slight black wash here and there.

Laters.

B.O.B.

If you can think it. Then someone has else has also thought of it. Then someone else has tried it. Then someone else tried and completed it. Then someone else tried and proved it CANT BE DONE!
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