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Anyone know about this: Brigantine - Zvezda Models 1/100

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  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Anyone know about this: Brigantine - Zvezda Models 1/100
Posted by Donnie on Sunday, January 1, 2006 11:41 PM
Brigantine English Sailn'Ship Zvezda Models 1/100 Scale Plastic Model Ship Kit
I found this at hobbytron. Does anyone have any knowledge about if this is a good one or not ?
Thanks in advance for anyones help.
http://www.hobbytron.com/
model/BrigantineEnglishSailnShipZvezdaModelsPlasticModelShipKit.html

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Monday, January 2, 2006 10:06 AM

Donnie

Thats and old Heller kit Re-boxed.Zvezda re-boxed three of Heller kits.The Brigatine,Sirius,and The Pourquoi Pas.All good kits. They all need some modifaction like wood mast and yards must most plastic kits do.Zvezda has come out with their own 1/72 scale line which is pretty good.They've done a Greek Triera.Roman Trireme,Roman Emperor Trireme.They just came out with a Hansa kogge (Cog) a ship from Medievel times.All the 1/72 scale can be made waterline or full hull. I wish more model company would do this.I've build the Greek Triera went together wonderfully.I'm working on the Hansa Kogge right now.Just got done staining the hull yesterday.These new kits go together well.Zvezda is the only model company coming out with any new sailing ship kits in plastic.My hope is that they keep coming there well done kits.

Back to the Brigatine.You'll have to get blocks and other rigging parts they don't come in the kit.It has some very fragile parts.The flash on these kits are a little heavy remember these molds have been around for a while but all and all a good kit. Good luck if you get one.I've got one waiting on the back burner.So many kits so little time.

Rod

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, January 2, 2006 10:24 AM

I couldn't get the link to work; it just took me to the Hobbytron homepage - and I couldn't figure out how to get from there to the ship model department.  But I've seen the kit advertised elsewhere.  I can't be sure without actually looking inside the box, but I think it's a rebox of an old Heller product from the late sixties or early seventies.  (There seems to be some sort of link between Heller and Zvezda.)

If I'm right, the kit is a really odd one.  In those days Heller sailing ships were characterized by three major features:  excellent artisanship, an utter lack of understanding of how real sailing ships are built, and extreme ingenuity when it came to recycling parts to make "new" kits.  I bought that "brigantine" with considerable enthusiasm back in the seventies, only to discover when I opened the box that it was a modified reissue of the exploration ship Pourquois Pas?  That was especially remarkable in view of the fact that the Pourquois Pas? had a steam engine and a propellor.

I never got around to trying to build the "brigantine," but  I remember some of its features.  The original propellor assembly had been replaced with a simple sternpost, and the prominent deckhouses and other deck furniture had been taken out.  The result was supposed to look like a small, generic nineteenth-century sailing vessel.  With a lot of effort it just might have been able to pass for one - but it would have taken a LOT of effort.  To my eye, at least, the overall proportions just didn't look right.  As I remember, the foremast was taller than the mainmast.  Not utterly inconceivable, but highly unlikely for the brigantine rig.

If this Zvezda product is in fact the old Heller one reincarnated, I can't recommend it.

The Zvezda line seems to include a fair number of reisses and some brand new products.  I haven't seen any of them in the flesh, but on the basis of published reviews I have the impression that the genuinely new ones aren't bad.  I'm particularly interested in the Russian warships from the Russo-Japanese War of 1905.  Fascinating, ugly-beautiful ships that, in their own depressing way, played a major role in history.

The most interesting of all the recent Zvezda releases to my taste, though, is the medieval Hanseatic cog.  (It's advertised on the Squadron website:  www.squadron.com .)  Caveat:  we should be alert to the possibility that it's based on a recycled Heller hull of some sort.  (I wouldn't put it past those people to base a cog model on a Viking ship, or a Santa Maria.)   If that's the case, it isn't worth buying.  But if, as the box art makes it look, it's a brand new kit, it's kind of exciting - because it would be such a terrific kit for newcomers to sailing ship modeling. 

The cog was a small ship; the Zvezda kit is on 1/72 scale.  (My first recommendation to aspiring sailing ship modelers has always been "start with a small ship on a large scale.")  It has one mast, but that mast has plenty of rigging; it would be a fine way to learn how rigging works without getting bogged down in repetition.  Scholarly knowledge of the medieval cog is such that there would be almost unlimited room for personalizing touches.  (I don't think anybody knows what the color scheme of a cog would have been.)  And the scale (as the manufacturer undoubtedly figured out) is an open invitation to populate the model with crew and passengers from the various sets of medieval figures that Zvezda (and several other companies) makes for the wargaming fraternity.

When I saw the ad for that kit it occurred to me that the hobby industry finally had come up with a way to connect two of my hobbies:  model building and music.  (Actually it's happened once before.  My to-be-built pile of kits includes a Revell Airbus airliner featuring a commemorative Austrian color scheme with a picture of Mozart on the fin.)  I've been toying around with the idea of buying that Zvezda cog and building it as the ship from Wagner's Tristan und Isolde.  If I can find the right figures, I just might be able to make that kit into the world's first R-rated ship model.

The only drawback I can see is the price:  $75.00.  For that kind of money I'm not going to buy it unless and until I can get a look inside the box.  But I think the idea of such a kit is great.  The shortage of good plastic sailing ship kits for newcomers troubles me; this one could go a long way toward filling the gap.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, January 2, 2006 12:40 PM

Looks like millard and I were typing at the same time.  He confirms my suspicion that the "brigantine" is a reboxing of the old Heller kit. 

If I remember correctly, the Sirius is yet another recycling of the Pourquois Pas? hull - this time with paddlewheels.  As I said earlier, those Heller folks were pretty ingenious when it came to recycling parts.  Whether the results met any reasonable definition of the term "scale model" is another matter.  The "brigantine" apparently is intended to be generic; they were on fairly safe ground there.  But the Pourquois Pas? was a real ship, and I gather the Sirius was too (though off the top of my head I'm not sure).  I haven't compared either of those kits to any plans of the real vessels, but something tells me that the real ones were not near-clones of each other.

To be fair, it should be noted that all those kits date from Heller's early years.  By the late 1970s the designers had learned a great deal (or been replaced).  The Heller H.M.S. Victory has to be on any list of best sailing ship kits ever - and the galley Reale and the xebec are in the same league.

Rod - what can you tell us about the cog kit?  I gather it is in fact a new product, rather than another recycled Heller hull.  How many parts?  What level of detail?  If you recommend it I'll probably buy it - after the family bank account recovers from the holidays.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, January 2, 2006 2:49 PM
Brigantine English Sailn'Ship Zvezda Models 1/100 Scale Plastic Model Ship Kit
DM-ZV9011

Brigantine English Sailn'Ship Zvezda Models 1/100 Scale Plastic Model Ship Kit Plastic model kits are an ideal way to interest youngsters in the modeler's hobby, and to rekindle skills for anyone returning to the hobby. From model cars to airplane kits, model ships and model tanks, even the starship Enterprise are all available as snap-together or glue-together model replicas. Wherever your interests and passions lie, there is a model here for you.

$64.95

This is the link that I visited - I am sorry - I don't know why the link changed.

Try this one and scroll down to near bottom of their hobbytron page on plastic models
http://www.hobbytron.com/plasticmodelshipkits.html


Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, January 2, 2006 3:30 PM
The picture doesn't tell us much - except that the individual who painted it didn't know much about ships.  That's no reflection on what's inside the box, though.  Some of the best kits I've ever encountered have had some of the worst box art.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Monday, January 2, 2006 8:33 PM

Jtilley the Hansa Cog is all new molds from Zvezda.There's about 80 parts with the kit.you can make it either full hull or waterline(which I'm doing the latter).No flash at all good crisp moulding. So far parts have fit great.its in the Clinker-style that it should be.If you Have Bjorn Landstrom book The Ship his drawing of the Hansa Cog match's the model to a tee.The mast comes in two half's so you can put a brass rod inside for strength,which I plan to do.The yard comes attached to a plastic sail two versions,full sail or furled.I'm planning on making my own yard because of that.The flags for the ship are on heavy paper and you have your choice of three different kingdoms to use.Also decals for the sails for the different kingdoms.I'm going to make cloth sails so I don't know how that will work.It has nice detailed fore-castle and stern- castle.The deadeyes have molded on rope that your suppose to tie the shrouds to.They are of simple design so I'll there again make my own.Compared to the price that Aoshima is getting for the re-issue of the old Imai kits(150.00+) this isn't a bad deal.Plus it something different.The hull measures about 15" long which at 1/72 scale makes the ship about 95' which is pretty close to correct.Some other neat features were you have injection pin molds on the inside of the hull you have knees that will go over them to cover.I'm liking the kit.

Rod

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 12:56 AM

Rod - Many thanks!  I think I'll put this one on my "to be bought" list - after the Tilley bank account recovers from Christmas.  With three kids and two grandkids we tended to go a little haywire with the Christmas presents.

It sounds like the people at Zvezda know what they're doing and have some interesting ideas.  The concept of injection-molded plastic sails tends to make me gag, but in a ship with one sail and one yard that's not much of a problem.  The idea of a waterline sailing ship model is nifty.  (I suspect both those features have something to do with the fact that many of the company's patrons are wargamers.)  I wish they hadn't faked the deadeyes and lanyards; rigging them properly on one mast really shouldn't be beyond the capacity of the average modeler.  On the other hand, as we've established in other threads of the Forum, the injection molding process can't produce accurate deadeyes - and in a single-masted ship, replacing the hokey ones with aftermarket parts wouldn't cost much.  Sounds like yours is going to be a thing of beauty.

I wonder if the problem of the sail decals and the overly-thick flags could be solved one way or another through the use of a scanner.  I've pursuaded my very-reasonably-priced Canon printer to work on lots of different materials, up to and including wood veneer.  I'd hesitate to run a piece of cloth through it, but a thin paper like drafting vellum might have possibilities.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 6:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><table class="quoteOuterTable"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/FSM/CS/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>jtilley wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">The picture doesn't tell us much - except that the individual who painted it didn't know much about ships.  That's no reflection on what's inside the box, though.  Some of the best kits I've ever encountered have had some of the worst box art.</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is an image of the built ship (note line delimiters):

http://www.moduni.de/product_info.php/cPath/10000000_10400000_10403001_10403040/products_id/7059011

I have always wondered how many parts are in the kit.

Regards,
Katzennahrung
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 6:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><table class="quoteOuterTable"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/FSM/CS/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>Katzennahrung wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">
http://www.moduni.de/product_info.php/cPath/10000000_10400000_10403001_10403040/products_id/7059011
</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

By the way: I laways thought or recall having read it that green colour was typical for Russian type of ships.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 7:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><table class="quoteOuterTable"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/FSM/CS/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>millard wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">I'm working on the Hansa Kogge right now.Just got done staining the hull yesterday.</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here you can find some more image to the Hansa Kogge from Zvezda:

http://www.moduni.de/product_info.php/cPath/10000000_10400000_10403001_10403040/products_id/7059018

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 8:00 AM
"jtilley" wrote :
==
I couldn't get the link to work; it The only drawback I can see is the price:  $75.00.  For that kind of money I'm not going to buy it unless and until I can get a look inside the box.  But I think the idea of such a kit is great. 
==

Sorry I do not get the quoting right. However, see my link posted. The link includes some images to the built Hansa Kogge. If it helps you.

Would you like to comment on the images? What do you think now is the kit worth the money. I am just curious:

http://www.moduni.de/product_info.php/cPath/10000000_10400000_10403001_10403040/products_id/7059018
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 8:05 AM
"Katzennahrung" wrote
==
http://www.moduni.de/product_info.php/cPath/10000000_10400000_10403001_10403040/products_id/7059018
==

Btw: the short review in German (scroll a bit down) states that the Kogge is likely 1:50 or 1:60 in scale and no 1:72. At least the opinion of the reviwers. He further writes that he will add wooden masts, clothing sails and some wooden blocks.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 8:20 AM

There are lots of holes in my knowledge of the latest scholarship on medieval shipbuilding, but that Zvezda cog certainly looks good to me.  That plastic sail has to go (though I admit it looks considerably better in the built-up photos than I expected), and I have some doubts about the anchors.  (They look mighty modern.  But I don't know anything about medieval anchors.)  And the ladder leading to the forecastle deck looks kind of chunky.  But stuff like that is easy to fix.  The decals and flags look excellent (though obviously I can't comment on the materials on which they're printed.)

It looks to me like this is a highly significant addition to the available plastic sailing ship kits - and, as I've already said, an excellent newcomer's project.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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