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Photographing ship models: newbie needs advice on digi cam

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Photographing ship models: newbie needs advice on digi cam
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 6:24 AM
Hello: I am totally illiterate concerning photographing models. Bear with me. Will let me make a camera close-up views with the following specifications (or see: http://www.mustek.de/eng_/pdf/dv4000.pdf):

- 2 mega pixs hardware lens (4 mega pixs interplolated)
- fixed focus lens with 5 glasses /8.5mm (equals 44mm odinary camera lens)
- focus range: 30cm (macro mode), 70 cm to infinity ordinary mode
- F.No 2.8
- digital zoom: 4x
- digital effects X3
- no flashlight however!

I see it sometimes cheaply on ebay.

Any hints are appreciated. Are there any other good alternatives out there? Requirements: not that costly, must have an option to connect to Macintosh or Linux hardware.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: ON canada
Posted by flaver on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 6:33 AM
Digital Video Cameras don't take as high quality pics as a still camera. If that is all you are looking for then  I would look elsewhere. DVC as far as I know don't have flashes nor are the still pictures as good.

I am not sure how much that costs, but you can get still cameras which also do have video capabilities, not very good mind you but the pic quality would be much better to say the least. Any entry level to mid level camera such as an HP, Kodak, Canon, Epson etc... should work on Mac and Linux, as it is seen as an external drive to your computer, and the pic quality would be fairly good.

If you are looking for a still camera then this is not the one you want.

Not sure if that helps.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 6:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><table class="quoteOuterTable"><tr><td class="txt4"><img src="/FSM/CS/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif">&nbsp;<strong>flaver wrote:</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="quoteTable"><table width="100%"><tr><td width="100%" valign="top" class="txt4">Digital Video Cameras don't take as high quality pics as a still camera. If that is all you are looking for then  I would look elsewhere. DVC as far as I know don't have flashes nor are the still pictures as good.<br><br>I am not sure how much that costs, but you can get still cameras which also do have video capabilities, not very good mind you but the pic quality would be much better to say the least. Any entry level to mid level camera such as an HP, Kodak, Canon, Epson etc... should work on Mac and Linux, as it is seen as an external drive to your computer, and the pic quality would be fairly good.<br><br>If you are looking for a still camera then this is not the one you want. <br><br>Not sure if that helps.<br></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the quick answer. I am not after any video capabilities whatsoever. I thought such a type of camera lies better in may hands when not using a tripod.

I am much more concerned with following: how can I determine from camera specs of vendors whether a camera will let me make /close-up/ views of my models.

Regards,
Katzennahrung
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 9:06 AM

I'm relatively new to the digital game, but I think I can help a little.

The specs of any camera or lens should be available on the manufacturer's website.  Good camera dealers also include full specs in their web descriptions.  I'm not familiar with the European photo market, but two good American sites are: 

www.adorama.com

www.bhphoto.com

The digital camera market at the moment is enormous, with new products appearing every month - and the prices dropping constantly.  I have the impression that most of the cameras being sold today are actually pretty good.  The safest course of action, though, is to stick with one of the big, well-established manufacturers:  Canon, Nikon, Konica-Minolta, Olympus, or Pentax.  All of them have been making fine cameras for decades.  Sony, Casio, and Panasonic, which got into the photo game early in the digital era, also have good reputations.

For taking closeup photos of models you need a camera that has either interchangable lenses or "macro capability."  The specification that needs to concern you is the "minimum focal distance."  For the sort of work you're talking about, you need to focus three or four inches from the subject. 

To take decent model photos you probably need at least four megapixels.  Several of the magazines say they'll accept three or above.  You probably can get by with three - but only if you refrain from extensive cropping of your pictures. 

Many of today's "compact digital" cameras have built-in macro capability.  They also have tiny lenses, which are miracles of precision manufacturing but, according to the experts, just don't have the ability to pick up detail like bigger, more traditional lenses do.  I don't speak to that point from personal experience, but I've heard and read it several times from people who know what they're talking about.

When I was shopping for a digital camera I decided fairly quickly that I didn't want one of those little "compact digicams."  I saved up my pennies, watched the reviews in the magazines, and eventually bought a 6.1-megapixel "digital SLR" - that is, digital single-lens reflex.  A digital SLR looks more-or-less like a traditional film camera.  Lots of different lenses - fixed-focus, zoom, telephoto, wide-angle, macro, fisheye, etc.- can be plugged into it.  I bought a Pentax *ist DS, mainly because I've been a Pentax man for decades and already had a couple of Pentax lenses that I'd been using with my film camera.  I've had the new digital camera for about six months, and so far I'm delighted with it in every respect. 

I'll make one other observation that may amount to heresy, but I think it's appropriate here.  If you're primarily interested in model photography, and if price is a major issue (as it is for most of us), it just may be that a digital camera isn't your best option. 

This is a great time to buy a film camera.  The film manufacturers are still offering excellent products, and undoubtedly will continue to do so for some time.  (The owner of the camera store where I shop is convinced that film will still be widely available for the rest of our lifetime.)  High-quality slide or print film still provides greater resolution than any affordable digital camera does.  (I've read estimates that it would take a digital camera of at least 18 megapixels to match the resolution of Fuji Velvia 100 slide film.)  And some of the magazines (including FSM, if I'm not mistaken) still say they prefer photo submissions in the form of prints or slides made from film.  Film processors (including drug stores and places like Wal-Mart) have machines that "digitally transfer" film images to CDs; you can get a 36-exposure roll of film developed and put onto a disk for about $5.00.  Once it's on the disk, you can e-mail it, manipulate it with image-enhancing software (such as PhotoShop or PhotoShop Elements), and do everything else with it that can be done with digital photographs. 

These photos were taken with a Pentax ZX-30 film SLR, on Fuji Reala 100 film, then digitized onto CD:

http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/hancock

http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/phantom

The best news about film cameras is that they currently offer a combination of high quality and low price that's never been seen before.  My Pentax digital SLR body (minus lens) has a street price of about $800.  You can buy a brand new Konica-Minolta Maxxum 50D film SLR body, complete with auto-focus, automatic exposure, built-in flash, and lots of other features, for less than $100.  You'll also need to buy a lens for it, and for closeup model photos you'll need a set of closeup filters or extension tubes.  But you should be able to get out of the camera store for less than $200.  And if your community has a good camera store that sells second-hand equipment, you probably can pick up an outstanding bargain on a used film camera.  Good photographers, who've taken good care of their equipment, are trading in film gear for digital all over the place, and the used camera dealers are unloading it for wonderful prices.

The "digital revolution" is seducing photography enthusiasts all over the world.  (I withstood it for several years, but it eventually hooked me too.)  It has a great deal to recommend it.  But for the particular purpose of model photography, film offers a fine combination of quality and low cost.

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 12:19 PM

I think JT has more than covered the initial question, but I'd just add, that if your main use will be close up model shots, and perhaps the odd family snap at the zoo, then take a look at the second hand market.

I have three digi cams, the oldest being a sony 2MP that takes better night/dark shots than both my newer cameras! so new is not always better!

My mid camera is a Nikon Coolpix5700, when it was new, it ran for about $900 or so, (I got mine on a trip to Japan), but the point is, you can now get it used on Evilbay, for the mid $200s! thats a steal for what is essentialy almost a pro camera.

The market for digital cameras has now fully over shot the traditional film market, and as such, camera makers are falling over themselves to release new models , not always with new features BTW!

This is great for people like you who are looking for a cheap camera, because the used market is being flooded. You don't have to go online to an auction, most quality camera shops will have a used section, prices will be higher but there should be a better option of service if it fails, Though my Sony is now 6 years old and going strong!

I think if I were in your shoes, I'd look at the used market, yes it's nice to have new, but it's not always the smartest move.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 2:22 PM
Excellent points made here by Jtilley and vapochilled. I am amature photographer and actually have sold some prints. There is no need for me to expound here, but I highly suggest getting a Digital Camera that has at least 5Meg - the main advantage is that you can "post" your progress here on this forum a lot easier and faster with Digital rather than film.
With film, you have to have it processed, and then get it home and then scan it - you get the point. With Digital, shoot and upload your images in less that 30 minutes. The other really main advantage is that with a HIGHER MegaPixel camera, if you have to CROP your image to your like, then you will be reducing your resolution (or your megapixels)
So, if you shoot a scene that has a full 5 megs, and something happens and you only want to crop out about 50% of your image to show detail on something, then you have reduced your image size consideralbly and your resolution will suffer.
I always try to shoot the image just for real 1:1 as I can to reduce the amount of cropping so as to save the amount of resolution. In other words, if you cropped 50% of your 5 MEg image, it will be the same as shooting the same image with lets say a 2.5 Meg camera, and so forth.
Soooo if you get too LOW of a Meg camera, like a 2 Meg, and if you had to Crop 50% of your image, then it would be like shooting with a 1.25 Meg camera. which the image will look really bad and fuzzy (loss of detail) we are talking like (4xx) X (2xx) image. 
Another advantage with Photo Processing software like Paint Shop Pro or Adobe Photoshop, you can do further post processing to enhance your photo. Still another advantage to digital is erasing your data off the memory stick and shoot again and again, instead of using film.
You will also need a memory card reader from Sandisk (is one brand), like a 6 in 1 stick reader. USB that will hook into your MAC or whatever you have to load your images into your computer. Adobe Photoshop make a MAC version of their Photoshop elements. Go to this link and you can download a free starter version for MAC
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopalbum/starter.html
Paint Shop Pro does not make a MAC version as of yet.
Go to the web sites mentioned and take your pic. You can also visit www.dpreview.com for all the latest reviews on all cameras.
Most all Digital Cameras has a special "Macro" mode that will let you get in VERy close to the subject to take closeup shots.
Then just do allot of practicing !
I personally use a SONY DSC-F717 (5Megs and it is outdated) Sony has the DSC-F828 and the Newer R1 that has come out recently.
Try to stear away from just apoint and shoot. It would be good if you can get ahold of a Digital Camera that will allow you to Manually adjust the Apeture and Lense Speed.
Well, that is my 2 cents worth and just my humble opinion.
Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 4:01 PM

 There is a software package called "Focus" from a company called Helicon. www.heliconfocus.com has a shareware version, which can be downloaded. (your pictures will have advertizing across the bottom) Once you purchase the package you recieve a liscense file which removes the ads.

This package merges pictures taken at different focal lengths, selecting the sharpest pixels, and produces clear sharp pictures with fantastic depth of field.

FYI

Pete

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Mike F6F on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 5:51 PM
Katz,

You received all kinds of advice here, but since I make my living shooting with the damn things, maybe I can help you make a camera choice without all the technical stuff.

You didn't mention what type of models you build. Some fixed lens cameras that have a macro capability may do OK for 1/350 scale warships, etc. I know of no fixed lens digital camera that will work very well shooting quality close-ups of 1/700 scale ships. The problem there requires that the camera be so close to the model that it often blocks any light trying to reach the subject.

Shooting very high quality, publishable images of small ship models really requires some special gear. Unless you have unlimited funds, my strongest recommendation is to buy a digital camera that you will be comfortable with. One you can use to shoot photos of your family, etc., and can use to occasionally shoot some model photos.

If you are interested in becoming a photo hobbyist, then jumping head first into megapixels, is OK. If not, then buying a complex camera can often be a trap. Complex cameras are OK for pros or hobby shooters who plan to use the cameras every day. If the camera isn't used often, the user often forgets how all the gadgets work and ends up rarely using the camera because it is such a hassle to constantly be checking the owner's manual instead of taking pictures.

Evaluate how much model photography you will be doing. If you need very high resolution publication photos and lots of them, jump right in. If you just want to take a shot or two for sharing model photos on the web, etc., any more general purpose camera will be a smarter purchase.

Always keep it fun.

Mike

Mike

 

"Grumman on a Navy Airplane is like Sterling on Silver."

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