Speaking of wooden ships...

ipms40049 wrote:

what would an easy first one be? Ive never done them before. Something with simple instructions. and also, what are the tools one needs? If you could direct to some pics of some, that would be nice too. thanks all

Hello: You could tell what you would prefer: a sailing ship, or some kind of fishing boat for example.

They will correct me, however: Artesania Latina prodcues some nice beginner kits. You should start out with a simple ship where rigging is not too complicated.

For example:

http://www.sell-it-easy.de/shop_e/query.php?cp_sid=2795508441b4&cp_tpl=5504_50&cp_pid=123000780&cp_cat=50

or this one:

http://www.sell-it-easy.de/shop_e/query.php?cp_sid=2795508441b4&cp_tpl=5504_53&cp_pid=123012131&cp_cat=53

That said: You should also research whether there exists some beginner kits made in America. The European kits are not to everyones desire.

Btw: you can subscribe to "Seaway's Ships in Scale" yahoo forum. There you will get also some more answers. Or the drydock forum is very actively visited.

Katzennahrung wrote:

ipms40049 wrote: what would an easy first one be? Ive never done them before. Something with simple instructions. and also, what are the tools one needs? If you could direct to some pics of some, that would be nice too. thanks all Hello: You could tell what you would prefer: a sailing ship, or some kind of fishing boat for example. They will correct me, however: Artesania Latina prodcues some nice beginner kits. You should start out with a simple ship where rigging is not too complicated. For example: http://www.sell-it-easy.de/shop_e/query.php?cp_sid=2795508441b4&cp_tpl=5504_50&cp_pid=123000780&cp_cat=50 or this one: http://www.sell-it-easy.de/shop_e/query.php?cp_sid=2795508441b4&cp_tpl=5504_53&cp_pid=123012131&cp_cat=53 That said: You should also research whether there exists some beginner kits made in America. The European kits are not to everyones desire. Btw: you can subscribe to "Seaway's Ships in Scale" yahoo forum. There you will get also some more answers. Or the drydock forum is very actively visited.

I was thinking maybe of some type of fishing boat.

Hmmm, IPMS, you ask this question one year too late.

Today, you must think of U.S. market or European market.  One year ago, you, U.S. modelers, had the best prices for Artesania Latina models, and Artesania Latina has a range of growing difficulties.

Just see this link : this is a Spanish online shop, but it shows the difficulty rating in Artesania Latina models

http://www.hobbiesguinea.com/default.php?cPath=57_134&osCsid=6bfa9130b1caa998e2b29c62429d1813

and about Constructo models :

http://www.hobbiesguinea.com/default.php?cPath=57_135&osCsid=6bfa9130b1caa998e2b29c62429d1813

Today your importer does not seem to import anymore Artesania Latina models.  They still have Occre-Domus models, but there are few beginners models in their range.

The Marie Jeanne by Artesania Latina would have been a nice model for you :

http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/mariejeanne

My first model was and Artesania Latina "Bounty jollyboat", and I really enjoyed it.  Thanks to this model, I am still with you today, ready to begin my "HMS Victory" model in some days.

Of course, there are still the Caldercraft models, but even their small models are expensive as first models.

Michel

 

I have a strong preference for American wood ship kits - not because they're American, but because the American manufacturers make a genuine effort to produce genuine scale models.  The continental European manufacturers seem to have something else - I've never been able to figure out what - as their highest priority.  I know Artisania Latina has its share of fans, but frankly I'm not among them.

One European company that I do like is the British firm CalderCraft, also known as Jotika.  But all of its kits are pretty elaborate and expensive.

In this part of the Forum we've recently been discussing some kits made in Germany, based on what's called the "Kammerlander system."  I haven't seen any of those kits myself, but on the basis of the web pictures they're extremely impressive.  I'm not sure they'd be good newcomers' projects, though.

I can recommend two American firms:  Bluejacket ( www.bluejacketinc.com ) and Model Shipways (sold by ModelExpo:  www.modelexpoonline.com ).  Each offers several solid-hull kits that would make excellent first-time projects.  Some that I can especially recommend:  the Bluejacket pilot schooner Mary Taylor and fishing schooner We're Here, and the Model Shipways Sultana, Phantom, Harriet Lane, and Dapper Tom.  Unfortunately several of the latter currently are marked "out of stock" on the ModelExpo website, but they're worth waiting for.  The Phantom and Sultana make particularly nice - and quite different - models. 

There's another good American company:  A.J. Fisher.  That firm has been dormant for many years, but is just being brought back to life by new management.  So far the new folks have, I believe, brought out only one Fisher kit:  the pilot schooner Dancing Feather.  It probably would be an excellent starter project.  I don't know the Fisher web address; maybe another Forum member can provide it.

Hope this helps a little.  Good luck.  It's a great hobby.

I decided on Caldercraft for my first kit because they seemed to fit the bill better than other manufacturers for the following reasons.

The Continental European kits have been criticised for lack of historical accuracy and use of generic parts. I'm a bit uncomfortable at the way these kits are talked of en masse as if they all share the same characteristics when we're talking about numerous companies throughtout a continent, but modellers with more experience than me seem to support this collective criticism. My problem with a lot of American kits for a beginner is that you have to scratchbuild many parts. Caldercraft have been accused of being expensive, but I don't think they're overpriced. Their kits are known for producing excellent models out of the box. There is also the issue of whether you want to ultimately build plank-on hulls. If you do then the only practise is to build one. That's why I decided against a solid hull model for my first go. Double planked kits give you a free practise in many ways, and make it easier to do the second planking neatly. My Sherbourne was 70 quid (around 110 dollars?) and if I do a decent job on it I'll end up with a very presentable, accurate model, out of the box. And I will have spent many hours working on it. Good value I think.

As for pics of models, go to the gallery section of drydock models here:

http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/

Blighty

The A.J.Fisher web site can be found at www.ajfisher.com

DANCING FEATHER, in my opinion, would be an excellent starter kit. I may be somewhat prejudiced having built one of the first kits, if not the first, while writing the directions for DF back when the late Bob Irwin was proprietor of AJF. From discussions with Bill Partridge who is bringing back AJF kits I believe it is much the same as the original AJF kit. I believe that Bill is doing the modeling community a great service by bringing back such kits as the EDNA G. and others to be announced.

Al Blevins

The return of A.J. Fisher is great news.  Those pictures of the Dancing Feather kit look great; as I suspected, it would make a great intro to the hobby.  I hope the other kits in the old Fisher line come back.  The company used to offer a fine mix of popular subjects (Constitution, Flying Cloud, etc.) and more off-beat ones (Great Lakes vessels - which have their own interesting histories and their own character).  I'm starting to get optimistic that we're on the verge of a modest boom in popularity for sailing ship kits.

I echo Blighty's comments about the continental European kits.  My opinion of the ones I've seen is generally pretty low.  (I get particularly disturbed when those companies produce copies of plastic kits - and sell the wood versions for hundreds of dollars.  They've done that more than once.)  But generalizations are always dangerous.  We all know that different kits from the same plastic manufacturer, issued in different decades, can show wildly different levels of quality.  I'm sure the same is true of those continental plank-on-bulkhead companies.

I am firmly of the opinion that the majority of European kits are simply not worth the money. The plans are a horror, the material supplied is sub-standard and the fittings too often out of scale.

I can't resist this opportunity to blow my own horn a bit Professer; The photo of Dancing Feather and the model shown on Fisher's website are both mine. If you have the last issue of the original AJF catalog you will see that the models of EDNA G., HENRY FORD II are also my models and photographs. Bob Irwin left out the credit for the DF.

Al Blevins  

 

 

I generally share Al's opinions of continental European plank-on-bulkhead kits.  It should be emphasized that the British ones from Calder/Jotika belong to a different world, as, apparently, do the German ones from GK Modelbau.  And I have the impression that some of the Billing kits, from Denmark, aren't too bad.  (I was interested to learn that the Wasa Museum has given its formal endorsement to two Wasa kits:  the wood one from Billing and the plastic one from Airfix.  At least two Italian p-o-b companies, Mantua and Corel, sell Wasa kits, but the museum pointedly ignores them.)  I know the kits from firms like Amati, Mamoli, Artesania Latina, Corel, Euromodel, and Constructo have given pleasure to large numbers of people; several guys in our model club have, in fact, gotten pretty impressive results from them (with considerable modifications).  If people enjoy spending their time on such projects it's not for me to tell them they shouldn't.  I do, however, object to the fact that those firms promote their kits as "scale models."  The things produced by those kits are, in many cases, quite attractive and provide great satisfaction to their owners.  But unless they're modified almost to the point of scratchbuilding, they aren't scale models.

Al - that Dancing Feather is a beauty.  I notice it has one feature that's conspicuously absent from the Model Shipways Phantom:  a small boat.  (As I understand it, the rowboats of pilot schooners were referred to as "pilot canoes.")  Maybe that has something to do with the fact that the DF was a Boston boat and the Phantom operated out of New York.  I have the impression that the two ports had distinctively different shaped pilot canoes.  I've seen scale drawings of a Boston canoe, but never a New York one.  If I ever find it I'll probably put one on my little Phantom model.

Here's hoping for great things from the reincarnated A.J. Fisher.  Looks like they're off to a fine start.

Professor Tilley,

Interesting that you should bring the subject of small boats up at this time. I am building BlueJacket's 'Mary Taylor', a NY pilot boat and referred quite a bit to Erik Ronnberg's monograph on 'Hesper', a Boston pilot boat. In addition I found a couple of articles in the Nautical Research Journal about pilot boats of both cities. It seems they were called canoes in Boston and yawls in NY. They were about the same size (12-14 feet) but had some interesting differences differences.

 When I was doing the directions and redrawing the plans for AJF's 'John McKeon' and DF, neither included a pilot boat. I researched them and added one to both of my models and added my drawings of the yawl and canoe to the respective plans, recommending to Bob Irwin that he add the material to the kits. I do not know if he did.

I find that having the boats on board add an interesting dimension of accuracy to the model and I usually detail inboard of one and mount the other upside down on the deck. The rigging for the launching of the boat is rather simple but adds a lot (IMHO)  to the fininshed model.

Al 

 

 

 

Very interesting!  I saw the Boston canoe drawings, but not the ones for the New York yawl.  I've got the NRJ on CD; I'll look it up.

Generally speaking I agree completely regarding ships' boats.  Lots of modelers tend to regard them as afterthoughts, and don't put much effort into them; I've seen more than one ship model's overall appearance get damaged pretty severely by poorly-executed boats.  The truth is that a well-detailed boat almost automatically becomes a center of attention on the finished model.  When I was doing my little Hancock model I made the boats relatively late in the proceedings, and found the job a welcome change of pace from the rigging.

I do wonder a little about the boats of the Phantom, though.  She has such a nice silhouette and sheerline as-is, and the yawls would break it up.  On the other hand, a pilot schooner with no boat isn't good for much. 

Hello again,

The reference in the NRJ for the NY pilot yawl is 39:241. I used Ronnberg's monograph on 'Hesper' for the Boston pilot canoe. Rather nicer looking than the NY version I think, and I liked the towing bitt in the bow. In connection with 'Hesper' I scratchbuilt a signal gun for 'Mary Taylor' that adds to the interest also. I used Ronnberg's monograph for that.

I agree about 'Phantom' definitely a lovely vessel, though most of the pilot boats had nice sheerlines. I built 'Phantom' several years ago and was most tempted by the recent sale price at Model Shipways. I have a number of models on the shelf to work on so I thought better of it. After doing the Model Shipways 'Niagara' I told a friend I was through with 'stick and string' models and did a tugboat and a second whaleboat, but the lure of the lovely lines of the pilot boats lured me back.

Al

The A.J. Fisher kits look very good, in my opinion, and based on my limited experience.

Caveats aside, are there any details on the forthcoming Niagara?

Regards,

I hope that A.J. Fisher's Constitution will be reissued as well; was it a good kit, which configuration of the ship?

Thanks.

I haven't seen or heard anything about the Fisher Constitution (or any other Fisher kits, for that matter) in many years.  I have the impression that it represented the ship pretty much as she looked at the time the kit was released - in the late '40s, I think (though it might have been earlier than that).  It wasn't until fairly recently that the ship modeling world really started getting interested in how much she'd been modified over the years.

So far as I know, all Fisher sailing ship kits (as opposed to operating sailboats) had solid, machine-carved hulls.  In the case of a frigate, that meant in those days that the guns on the gundeck were represented by "dummies" - stub barrels that plugged into holes drilled in the sides.    Model Shipways and Marine Models handled the problem the same way.  (If I remember right, though, Fisher's "dummy guns" were turned brass, with threaded spigots; the other two used cast lead alloy.  The full-length guns in the little Revell kit, released in 1956, shook up the market a bit.)  If Fisher does reissue the kit, I hope that aspect of it will get changed.  I don't think modern scale modelers are disposed to accept "dummy guns;"  I'm certainly not.  (That feature has always disappointed me about the Airfix plastic warship kits.)

There are two excellent wood Constitution kits out there at the moment.  The Bluejacket kit has a solid hull (as high as the gundeck; the modeler has to build the spardeck), and represents considerable effort to figure out her War of 1812 configuration.  The Model Shipways version is plank-on-bulkhead, and represents her as she appears today - or, more correctly, as she appeared a few years ago, when Mr. Lankford drew the plans.  Either would make a good start for a serious scale model of the ship.