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any hope of aurora reissues ?

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:54 PM
As a lad in the late 1960s/early 70's, I remember the Aurora kits.  One year for Christmas, I got the Hartford, and another  year I got the Wanderer.  Both occupied a position of honor on top of  my parent's updright piano at one time or another. 

The things I remember now about these kits:   The injected molded sails were very heavy. I had problems with the yard and sail combo units falling off the model--the mast to yard glue joint was pretty small for all that weight of plastic.  The jibs were heavy too, they caused the stays they were rigged to sag.

I remember the same thing about the Wanderer's sails.  I remember it came with those neat whales as a display base. I remember a year or two later, that a neighbor had the Bon Homme Richard- which I would have loved  to have gotten, as it had a lot more cannons than the Wanderer!

Both kits disppeared in the years after I went away to college-- I don't know what ever became of them....


Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 3:14 PM

The overall shapes were about right (though the Wanderer's whaleboats looked like caricatures of the real things), but the details were pretty coarse and toy-like.  Worst of all, they had thick, injection-molded plastic "sails" molded integrally with the yards.  I remember building a couple of them, and being thoroughly unimpressed with the results.  To make a serious scale model from one of those kits would necessitate scrapping everything from the deck up

   I wouldn't go quite that far, the davits, and deck houses are usable as well as the lower masts. everything above the tops?......I don't think my spare parts box will get any fuller. I have, already rebuilt the tryworks, and Prof. Tilley's comment about the whaleboats is actually quite kind. The truth would probably be moderated out of the post. As far as "scale model", what impressed me was that the Aurora "wanderer" appears to be a 1:87 scale model, her on deck length, and beam measure exactly with an HO scale rule.

Pete

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 7:37 AM

Well dear professor, in fact whole the nautical archeology knows little about the end of late antiquity mediterranean naval technology (or "dark ages" as outfashioned linear thinking historians call Wink [;)]). Scarcity of illustrations or carvings and even the lack of written descriptions leaves the nautical archeologists largely to guesses and assumptions. The oldest visual and relatively detailed written description of a byzantine fireship is on a fascinating diary of a 11th century byzantine officer; the famous Manuel Skylitzes manuscript. The rather naive and crude picture in the manuscript shows a vessel with a striking resemblence to the old aurora drakkar. by the light of our few scraps of concrete evidences and a with a little (scientifically backed) imagination by your part, you can create a wonderful little replica of a very important yet quite obscure type of warship. Smile [:)]

I've noted the list of ships that you wrote above. Well I don't know how I can obtain them but the following are entrenched in my wishlist:

The Hartford

Bonhomme Richard

Corsair

Atlantis

Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, January 30, 2006 11:42 PM
What a fine idea!  My knowledge of Byzantine naval history is precisely zero, and I confess the thought of converting that kit into a Byzantine vessel never occurred to me.  (I think we can assume that it never occurred to the Aurora designers either.)  But if the torso of that old fossil can be turned into the basis of a serious scale model - great!

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Monday, January 30, 2006 9:17 PM
 jtilley wrote:

As a certified member of the Society of Old Phogey Modelers, I remember some of those ancient Aurora kits quite clearly.  I built that "Viking ship" several times before I got out of elementary school.  I guess I have to give Aurora some credit for getting me interested in maritime history.

They're great subjects for nostalgic ramblings by people like me.  As scale models, though, it's hard to take them seriously.  It looks to me like the people who designed that "Viking ship" did no research whatsoever; they just put together something that kids would think looked like a Viking ship. 

The hull bears little or no resemblance to any actual Norse archaeological evidence.  The lines of it aren't Norse, and it has a smooth exterior surface, with either grooves or raised lines - I don't recall which - representing the edges of flush-fitted planks.  I'd be willing to be corrected on this point, but to my knowledge every extant Norse vessel has a clinker-built hull (i.e., the planks overlap at the edges).  Norse ships and boats have a graceful, highly distinctive shape, generated largely by the natural curves of the planks.  That Aurora kit just doesn't look like that.  The "dragon" ornaments at the bow and stern are pure, 1950s American cartoons; no Norseman ever carved anything that looked like that.  (Imagine what that dragon's head would look like - and how much it would weigh - if it was full size.)  When I was little I took great pride in painting all those delightful figures that came with the kit - including the guys with horned helmets.  One of the first things one learns when reading seriously about Norse culture is that the horned helmet has nothing to do with it.  The fellows in that kit would be at home in a Wagner opera, but not on the deck of a Viking ship. 

Unfortunately the Vikings haven't fared at all well with ship model kit manufacturers.  The Heller rendition of the Oseberg Ship is awful, with proportions and decorations that bear little resemblance to the original.  The same can be said for most of the wood kits from Continental European manufacturers - though Billing makes one or two Norse craft that look believable.  The best rendition of a Viking ship in kit form that I know about is the one Revell released in 1977.  It's a reasonably accurate scale model of the Gokstad Ship, the largest actual Norse vessel that's survived.  Unfortunately the Revell kit was only on the market for a few years, and is hard to find nowadays.  (It's high on my list of kits I'd like to see reissued.  What a fine subject to for a newcomer to sailing ship modeling!)

I built the Black Falcon a couple of times when I was little, but I don't remember it very clearly.  What I recall most is the injection-molded "shrouds and ratlines," which my older brother and I thought at the time were pretty funny.  (In reality they probably were at least as realistic as the plastic-coated thread abominations Revell was making at the time.)  It was one of the very first plastic sailing ships ever released.  It just might be capable of being made into a serious scale model, but I suspect scratch-building would be quicker.

In the fifties and early sixties Aurora made several other sailing ships.  One that brings back pleasant memories was an American privateer schooner with the name Cosair.  It was a nice, simple little model, similar in shape to the famous privateer Prince de Neufchatel.  Aurora also did a Bluenose, a Chinese junk (which recently reappeared in the catalog of Revell Germany), a small (and dreadfully inaccurate) Cutty Sark, and a rather primitive Sovereign of the Seas.  I'm sure there were a few more that I've forgotten.

Near the end of Aurora's existence (the late sixties, I think) it issued a small series of sailing ships that, I think, were intended to fill a gap in the market between the small and large Revell kits.  The Aurora ones came in nicely-illustrated boxes and, if I remember correctly, sold for $5.00 or $6.00.  The finished models were about two feet long.  (The small Revell series kits were about eighteen inches long, and the bigger ones - the Cutty Sark, Constitution, Kearsarge, etc. - were about three feet long.  The latter sold for $12.00 or $15.00, making them the most expensive kits in the industry.)  As I remember there were four kits in that Aurora series:  the Bonhomme Richard, the U.S.S. Hartford, the whaler Wanderer, and the clipper ship Sea Witch.  (The latter was in fact a modified reissue of an extremely old kit originally issued by ITC.  It's since reappeared under the Lindberg label.  The other three, I think, were original Aurora designs.) 

As I understand it those kits now fetch pretty high prices from collectors.  As scale models they certainly were better than the kits from the fifties, but left a great deal to be desired.  The overall shapes were about right (though the Wanderer's whaleboats looked like caricatures of the real things), but the details were pretty coarse and toy-like.  Worst of all, they had thick, injection-molded plastic "sails" molded integrally with the yards.  I remember building a couple of them, and being thoroughly unimpressed with the results.  To make a serious scale model from one of those kits would necessitate scrapping everything from the deck up.  That can be done, of course, but I can think of lots of kits that would be better applications for the necessary time and skill.

Like many other modelers of my generation I look back on the days of Aurora with a great deal of nostalgia.  When I was a kid I had lots of fun building Aurora kits - and I undoubtedly learned a lot in the process.  I'd enjoy getting my hands on any of those old sailing ship kits, running my fingers over the pieces, and letting the memories well up inside.  But I wouldn't try to make it into a serious scale model.

Professor Tilley's words are extremely illuminating as always. Yes the viking ship has nothing to do with any norse technology but quite ironically, it is very fine to build a 6th-7th century byzantine small dromon. İt's carvel built, long and narrow hull combined with relatively capacious fore and aft decks makes this little ship a perfect subject of conversion. Just saw off that comic dragon head and tail, replace the square sail with a lateen sail, put a greek fire projector to the fore deck (russian plastic soldiers producer Orion has a 1/72 roman sailors set which provides you both with a nice rowing crew and such a fire projector) and then, if you like, you may add a light tripod archers platform above the projector. Here you have a fairly nice replica of that type of ship which saved byzantine capital from arab invasion twice Wink [;)]

Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Greenville,Michigan
Posted by millard on Monday, January 30, 2006 6:34 PM

Emir

Believe me you don't want the Bonhomme Richard.I have one in my stash and it is not worth the time.Perhaps fifty years ago went it first come out it was ok for the times.there's a lot of really good ship models out there you should look at.Anything my Imai is good,Revell 1/96 scale ship good builds and a few of the Heller kits.Aurora had one kit that was not bad The Wanderer Whaler.It looks a little like the Charles W. Morgan not as crude as the Bonhomme.Could be made into something nice with a little scratch building.

Rod

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Monday, January 30, 2006 1:08 PM
Who knows except them, but that is the way the operate
  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by DURR on Monday, January 30, 2006 12:56 PM

 grandadjohn wrote:
Monogram has refused to state which molds it had left,, some have been issued by Monogram and others leased or sold to other companies. What is still left is only a quess.

in the a crazy modeling market we have today  if  monogram  has more molds why would they keep it a secret  they would use them so as to increase salesQuestion [?]

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, January 30, 2006 12:39 PM

As a certified member of the Society of Old Phogey Modelers, I remember some of those ancient Aurora kits quite clearly.  I built that "Viking ship" several times before I got out of elementary school.  I guess I have to give Aurora some credit for getting me interested in maritime history.

They're great subjects for nostalgic ramblings by people like me.  As scale models, though, it's hard to take them seriously.  It looks to me like the people who designed that "Viking ship" did no research whatsoever; they just put together something that kids would think looked like a Viking ship. 

The hull bears little or no resemblance to any actual Norse archaeological evidence.  The lines of it aren't Norse, and it has a smooth exterior surface, with either grooves or raised lines - I don't recall which - representing the edges of flush-fitted planks.  I'd be willing to be corrected on this point, but to my knowledge every extant Norse vessel has a clinker-built hull (i.e., the planks overlap at the edges).  Norse ships and boats have a graceful, highly distinctive shape, generated largely by the natural curves of the planks.  That Aurora kit just doesn't look like that.  The "dragon" ornaments at the bow and stern are pure, 1950s American cartoons; no Norseman ever carved anything that looked like that.  (Imagine what that dragon's head would look like - and how much it would weigh - if it was full size.)  When I was little I took great pride in painting all those delightful figures that came with the kit - including the guys with horned helmets.  One of the first things one learns when reading seriously about Norse culture is that the horned helmet has nothing to do with it.  The fellows in that kit would be at home in a Wagner opera, but not on the deck of a Viking ship. 

Unfortunately the Vikings haven't fared at all well with ship model kit manufacturers.  The Heller rendition of the Oseberg Ship is awful, with proportions and decorations that bear little resemblance to the original.  The same can be said for most of the wood kits from Continental European manufacturers - though Billing makes one or two Norse craft that look believable.  The best rendition of a Viking ship in kit form that I know about is the one Revell released in 1977.  It's a reasonably accurate scale model of the Gokstad Ship, the largest actual Norse vessel that's survived.  Unfortunately the Revell kit was only on the market for a few years, and is hard to find nowadays.  (It's high on my list of kits I'd like to see reissued.  What a fine subject to for a newcomer to sailing ship modeling!)

I built the Black Falcon a couple of times when I was little, but I don't remember it very clearly.  What I recall most is the injection-molded "shrouds and ratlines," which my older brother and I thought at the time were pretty funny.  (In reality they probably were at least as realistic as the plastic-coated thread abominations Revell was making at the time.)  It was one of the very first plastic sailing ships ever released.  It just might be capable of being made into a serious scale model, but I suspect scratch-building would be quicker.

In the fifties and early sixties Aurora made several other sailing ships.  One that brings back pleasant memories was an American privateer schooner with the name Cosair.  It was a nice, simple little model, similar in shape to the famous privateer Prince de Neufchatel.  Aurora also did a Bluenose, a Chinese junk (which recently reappeared in the catalog of Revell Germany), a small (and dreadfully inaccurate) Cutty Sark, and a rather primitive Sovereign of the Seas.  I'm sure there were a few more that I've forgotten.

Near the end of Aurora's existence (the late sixties, I think) it issued a small series of sailing ships that, I think, were intended to fill a gap in the market between the small and large Revell kits.  The Aurora ones came in nicely-illustrated boxes and, if I remember correctly, sold for $5.00 or $6.00.  The finished models were about two feet long.  (The small Revell series kits were about eighteen inches long, and the bigger ones - the Cutty Sark, Constitution, Kearsarge, etc. - were about three feet long.  The latter sold for $12.00 or $15.00, making them the most expensive kits in the industry.)  As I remember there were four kits in that Aurora series:  the Bonhomme Richard, the U.S.S. Hartford, the whaler Wanderer, and the clipper ship Sea Witch.  (The latter was in fact a modified reissue of an extremely old kit originally issued by ITC.  It's since reappeared under the Lindberg label.  The other three, I think, were original Aurora designs.) 

As I understand it those kits now fetch pretty high prices from collectors.  As scale models they certainly were better than the kits from the fifties, but left a great deal to be desired.  The overall shapes were about right (though the Wanderer's whaleboats looked like caricatures of the real things), but the details were pretty coarse and toy-like.  Worst of all, they had thick, injection-molded plastic "sails" molded integrally with the yards.  I remember building a couple of them, and being thoroughly unimpressed with the results.  To make a serious scale model from one of those kits would necessitate scrapping everything from the deck up.  That can be done, of course, but I can think of lots of kits that would be better applications for the necessary time and skill.

Like many other modelers of my generation I look back on the days of Aurora with a great deal of nostalgia.  When I was a kid I had lots of fun building Aurora kits - and I undoubtedly learned a lot in the process.  I'd enjoy getting my hands on any of those old sailing ship kits, running my fingers over the pieces, and letting the memories well up inside.  But I wouldn't try to make it into a serious scale model.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Monday, January 30, 2006 8:01 AM
When Aurora went out of business Monogram bought all the molds, will being ship by train an accident occured and some molds were destroyed and others damaged and desposed of. Monogram has refused to state which molds it had left,, some have been issued by Monogram and others leased or sold to other companies. What is still left is only a quess.
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Monday, January 30, 2006 7:55 AM
 kapudan_emir_effendi wrote:

I wonder if any other company acquired their molds and if there is any hope of seeing them again on the market. (my ideas concerning aurora are all the same for pyro ships too)

When Aurora closed their doors some of their molds were purchased by Monogram.   The 1:400 scale USS Enterprise (CVN-65) come to immediate mind.   Other molds were reportedly destroyed or otherwise lost or discarded.

When Monogram and Revell (USA) merged,  Revell got access to the old Aurora molds which Monogram had obtained.  That is the reason you have seen the re-release of the old Aurora/Monogram model of the Enterprise in a huge Revell box.

Another company, Polar Lights, got access to the fantasy and science fiction molds and has re-released them.   I understand that in some instances they did not have the mold, rather they re-engineered them.

The less-desired molds appear to have been sold or leased to some Eastern European companies.

Perhaps the question should be rephrased to ask what former Aurora molds still exist and are in manufacturer's hands around the world.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Monday, January 30, 2006 5:27 AM

The Bon Homme Richard was my first Sailing ship model, was it ever ugly! At least, the way I built it it was.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
any hope of aurora reissues ?
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Monday, January 30, 2006 5:08 AM

Greetings,

As most shipmodelers here know, aurora's ships are some kind of legend. I'm not the exception and my fascination is much more deep by the fact that I'm born in 1983, a year when Aurora Co. was long gone. Their kits are a kind of mysterious secret to me. I only had the chance to review in depth two of its ships: the 1/60 drakkar and the brigantine black falcon due to their reissue by Smer from czech republic; and what I saw pleased me so much. Considering the years when they were produced, they are agreably beautiful models and have a great potential to be first class replicas. (my drakkar will be a dromon and I will re-detail and backdate the brigantine to 17th century). However, There are three aurora kits that cause me shivers of desire: the steam sloop hartford, two-foot long Bonhomme richard man-of-war and the raider Atlantis. I saw a finished hartford in a hobby shop in Milan, Italy and that was looking magnificent. Today, those kits are extremely difficult to find in auctions and even half-finished ones are selling for hundreds of dollars. I wonder if any other company acquired their molds and if there is any hope of seeing them again on the market. (my ideas concerning aurora are all the same for pyro ships too)

best wishes

Don't surrender the ship !
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