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Heller CORSAIR

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  • Member since
    May 2003
Heller CORSAIR
Posted by knmhobbies on Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:02 PM

I just purchased the Heller 1/150 scale kit of the CORSAIR on eBay. Has anyone ever built this kit before ? Any comments. Does anyone have any idea of the history of the actual ship or know if it really existed?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6035729946

http://www.old.modelarstwo.org.pl/szkutnicze/galeria/duvnjak/corsair/corsair.jpg

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Posted by schoonerbumm on Friday, February 17, 2006 12:10 AM

The Heller model is not a bad representation of a 'xebec' or 'chebec' used by the North African corsairs in the 18th century. I've built it and it's not a bad little model, but requires some modification to be more "accurate".  Out of the box, this vessel has a "European" type rig, with a staysail (similar to a jib) rigged off of a central mast (the largest of two masts). For a more representative North African rig, I think that a third mast near the stem should be rigged, leaning slightly forward, with a third lateen sail, approximately the same size as that on the main. I would also leave off the square sails and rafee supplied with the kit and trim off the main topmast.  The paint scheme shown on the Heller box looks European as well with red bulwark interiors and deck furniture, plain exterior with 'yellow ochre' hull. I think the North African vessels would have more ornate and colorful interior and exterior paint (geometric patterns similar to those associated with Elizabethan ships) and hulls would tend to be darker brown than the European 'yellow ochre'.

The vessel is a reasonable size for 1/150 scale, which is good since other vessels are available which are good representations of vessels found in the Mediterranean during this era at this scale, namely the French frigate La Flore (Lindberg Jolly Roger), French 74 gun SOL Le Superbe (Heller), British bomb ketch (Pyro) (which with a little work can be easily transformed into an 18th century trading brig or snow - I've always thought that a bomb ketch derivative and xebec had diorama potential).

 

 

  

  

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Friday, February 17, 2006 5:43 PM
 schoonerbumm wrote:

The Heller model is not a bad representation of a 'xebec' or 'chebec' used by the North African corsairs in the 18th century. I've built it and it's not a bad little model, but requires some modification to be more "accurate".  Out of the box, this vessel has a "European" type rig, with a staysail (similar to a jib) rigged off of a central mast (the largest of two masts). For a more representative North African rig, I think that a third mast near the stem should be rigged, leaning slightly forward, with a third lateen sail, approximately the same size as that on the main. I would also leave off the square sails and rafee supplied with the kit and trim off the main topmast.  The paint scheme shown on the Heller box looks European as well with red bulwark interiors and deck furniture, plain exterior with 'yellow ochre' hull. I think the North African vessels would have more ornate and colorful interior and exterior paint (geometric patterns similar to those associated with Elizabethan ships) and hulls would tend to be darker brown than the European 'yellow ochre'.

The vessel is a reasonable size for 1/150 scale, which is good since other vessels are available which are good representations of vessels found in the Mediterranean during this era at this scale, namely the French frigate La Flore (Lindberg Jolly Roger), French 74 gun SOL Le Superbe (Heller), British bomb ketch (Pyro) (which with a little work can be easily transformed into an 18th century trading brig or snow - I've always thought that a bomb ketch derivative and xebec had diorama potential).


Good day Sires,

I must disagree with Mr. Schoonerbumm. Heller Corsaire is an excellent if a bit delicate little replica of a mediterranean vessel called Tartane by christians and Kirlangitch (litterally "swallow") by muslims. İt is reproduced from 1/60 scale plans commercially avaliable from l'association des amis de la museé de marine, Paris. Kirlangitch was a coastal vessel, very swift and maneuvrable and was used for both trade and piracy. Especially greeks used them during their revolution as burlotas (fireships). A very interesting "burlota attack" diorama can be made by using 74 gun Le Superbe as a turkish SoL and this fine little ship.

Regards
Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    May 2003
Posted by knmhobbies on Friday, February 17, 2006 9:14 PM
I am currently reading the book "THE SHIP AN ILLUSTRATED HISTORY" by Bjorn Landstrom which features drawings of the  chebec  and drawings of a Spanish tartane and an Italian tartane. From those drawings the Heller Corsair's hull is shaped almost exactly like the hull of a chebeck. The layout of the sails on the Heller kit is closer to a tartane but not exactly as both tartane drawings show only one mast and the Heller kit appears to have 2 masts. None of the drawings show any of the ships with a square topsail. There is no mention of the Kirlangitch in the book that I have been able to find so far. I will have to do some more research.
  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:01 AM

Good day,

Well sir, you are right that the tartanes vary from region to region in the mediterranean. for example spanish tartanes are more long, almost galley like while italian tartanes (especially those from sicily) are little more than simple open-top fishing barges. However, Heller kit represents an Albanian tartane from ionian/aegean. İt's quite tubby but of sound construction and has the specifications of a true ship, able to cruise in the archipelago. An exact master prototype of the Heller kit, albeit in 1/60 scale can be found in the museé de la marine, Paris. You can consult to Jean Boudriot's famous book of museé de la marine models for further information. As far as I know, "Golden age of Sail" from conway press history of the ship series includes a full chapter about mediterranean vessels. This can be of help too.

Best Wishes

Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Posted by schoonerbumm on Saturday, February 18, 2006 12:35 PM

Something lost in the translation?

It's hard to dispute Boudriot... but the English definition of Tartan (or Tartane) is very specific in a variety of sources (Steel, Oxford Guide, Sea of Words) as a small (at 1/150th scale, the Heller model scales out at 100 tons - large for a 'small' vessel), single masted (Heller model has two) coastal vessel with a staysail (as does the Heller model).  Illustrations accompanying the definitions show a simple plan with relatively flat sheer and simple stern since there is no mizzen (the Heller model has a distincitve sheer line and  the raised poop extending well aft of the rudder post as shown in illustrations of xebecs).  

But Falconer lists a Xebec as having three masts (as mentioned in my first post). It doesn't include a reference to tartanes.      

So it appears that from an English point of view, the vessel may be neither tartane or xebec, but either a hybrid (large tartane or small xebec?) or apocryphal (there are other models in Musee de Marine that are flights of fancy - frigate La Flore for example and then there is the "Le Gladiateur" kit from Heller). 

Of course, the last time I looked, England was not a Mediterranean country, and it had its own linguistic problems distinguishing between a 'sloop' with one mast an a 'sloop' with three.   

So back to your original question, is the model straight out of the box representative?  It appears so, you just need to figure out what to call it...  maybe it's a Corsair.  

 

 

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    May 2003
Posted by knmhobbies on Saturday, February 18, 2006 6:44 PM

I did some more research on the internet starting from the l'association des amis de la museé de marine as kapudan_emir_effendi recommended. This site does sell 1/50 scale plans for a Tartane which clearly looks very similar to the Heller Corsair.

I also found photos of the Tartane La Diligente here http://www.ancre.fr/Diligente/Diligente_2.htm  from a monograph on the ship available from A N C R E. The ship is laid out very similar to the Heller Corsair including the armament but without the poop extending aft of the rudder post.

Here is a photo of another tartane I found that looks very similar to the Heller kit. http://www.hc-sa.ch/maquettes/details/Tartane_e.php3

The drawings I have seen of Chebecks all show a much more heavily armed ship similar to a frigate with 18 to 22 guns. THE SHIP AN ILLUSTRATED HISTORY features a drawing taken from "Souvenirs de Marine Conserve's" which shows a chebec rigged approximately like an ordinary eighteenth century frigate. Again nothing like the Heller kit.

nauticalmuseum.com http://www.nauticalmuseum.com/ekthemata/109.htm describes the Chebec specifically the INDISCRET as "a characteristic Western Mediterranean sailing vessel, like the tartane. It was primarily a fast, light sailing warship, but in calms could also be rowed by means of oars through smaller ports in the bulwarks between each two adjacent guns." Again nothing like the Heller kit as the Corsair only has four gunports with no provision for oars. The INDISCRET carries 24 guns, again much more heavily armed then the Heller model. 

From what I have been able to find so far it appears that there is more evidence to show that kapudan_emir_effendi is correct that the Heller Corsair kit represents a tartane. It would take much more work then just adding a third  mast to turn the Corsair into a chebec as the armament is not correct from all of the drawings and model photos I have seen so far and a chebec appears to be a larger ship.     

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
Posted by knmhobbies on Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:28 AM
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