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Au Secours! Help needed with La Belle Poule

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  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Walworth, NY
Au Secours! Help needed with La Belle Poule
Posted by Powder Monkey on Thursday, March 2, 2006 8:50 PM
I am trying to get the deck installed, but I need to do some pre rigging first. On either side of the hull are two platforms ( channels? ). One is for the foremast. The other is for the main and mizzen masts. Starting aft and moving forward, there are 49 holes, numbered 1-49. Below the channels, in the hull, there are 48 holes, numbered 2-49. The idea is that the shrouds and the backstays pass through the channels and into the hull. The lines are glued inside the hull. This is why I need to run them before installing the deck. The scale is 1/200 so the thread is used to represent the chainplates. For reference, I have the Heller destructions and a copy of rigging for the Corvette La Creole by Jean Boudriot ( which is a slightly different ship.) ( Confused yet? ) The problems are 1. there are too many holes. and 2. the Heller diagrams show some of the shrouds and backstays coming out of the same hole in the channel. Also you will notice that there is no #1 hole in the hull. #1 line is the mizzen backstay that goes all the way to the top of the topgallant mast. Heller shows the extra holes as threads going from the channel to the hull. Some of them cross each other and go across the gunports!

So, what shall I do? Do only shrouds and backstays go to the channels?. Do they all use deadeyes and chainplates? I had bought some small beads to use as deadeyes. They are 0.095" diameter which scales up to 19". So maybe I will just tie knots. Should I just eyeball the best spacing and leave some holes empty? What about the ones that come from the same hole? The Boudriot plans are different enough to confuse me here. And of course, all the names are in French. ( Madame Prawer never included those words in her vocabulary tests! )

I hope my rambling makes some sense. I just want to install the deck!!! Maybe I should install a line in each hole and whatever doesn't get used, shove it back into the hull. What do you all think?

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, March 2, 2006 11:34 PM

I think I get the general picture - though I'd have to see the kit in person to understand all the details.  It sounds like you're the victim of a typical Hellerism.  As I've said several times before in this forum, the people who designed those kits seem to have been superb artisans whose understanding of real ships was, to put it as gently as possible, defective.

To do a really thorough, accurate job of rigging a model like this really requires a good set of plans.  I think I recall that Jean Boudriot published a volume on La Belle Poule, and there's a package of plans for her in the Musee de la Marine series, which is available in the U.S. through Taubman's Plan Service.  Unfortunately both of those sources are pretty expensive; I can't blame anybody who balks at the prospect of paying something in the neighborhood of a hundred dollars on a modeling project of that nature. 

I think I have seen a few cases (not many) of chainplates effectively crossing each other between the channel and the hull.  It can happen when the aftermost shroud deadeye is close to the first topmast backstay deadeye.  The shroud is on a steep angle and the backstay is almost vertical, so the chainplates cross.  (The backstay deadeye is probably a little inboard of the shroud deadeye, so the chainplates are clear of each other.)  Maybe that's what's going on here.  But it's just as likely that Heller simply made a mistake, through lack of understanding.  The idea of two chainplates being held to the hull by one bolt (i.e., coming out through the same hole) seems highly unlikely, but I don't  suppose it's impossible.  It's a pretty safe bet that the shrouds and backstays aren't supposed to run in front of the gunports.  The standard approach was to space the deadeyes in the channels so that wouldn't happen.  That's why the spacing between the deadeyes of warships is frequently inconsistent.

If I were doing it I think my inclination would be to fill all the questionable holes and drill new ones in locations that make sense. 

One approach to the deadeye problem that you might consider is the old-fashioned "combo unit."  "Deadeye combos" used to be standard fare among wood ship model manufacturers; I'm pretty sure Bluejacket ( www.bluejacktinc.com ) still makes them, and Model Expo ( www.modelexpoonline.com ) may sell them as well.  A deadeye combo is a pair of deadeyes cast in metal, complete with cast metal "lanyards."  The idea has its limitations - mainly the fact that the linear spacing between pairs of deadeyes in a gang of shrouds varies quite a bit.  But it might be worth looking into.  You also might consider the old "blob-of-glue" trick.  On such a tiny scale a drop of Elmer's glue, with some black acrylic hobby paint mixed in to stiffen it, can make a fairly convincing deadeye if it's applied carefully.  Another, slightly more difficult approach is to slice off thin slivers of plastic rod and glue them to the shrouds.  On 1/200 scale the key to success is to give the viewer the impression that the deadeyes are there.

I'm afraid this hasn't helped much.  But good luck.

 

 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Walworth, NY
Posted by Powder Monkey on Friday, March 3, 2006 8:07 AM
How big would a deadeye be? From photos of other ships, it looks to me to be 8 or 9 inches. The smallest combo deadeye at Bluejacket is 1/16" or .062. Eight inches is 0.040" at 1/200 scale. So the 1/16" ones would be just over 12" scaled up. Thats probably too big. Maybe knots and glue are the way to go.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, March 3, 2006 12:06 PM

To get the actual sizes of the deadeyes you need a set of plans.  A 12" deadeye is pretty big - though not unbelievably so.  The deadeyes of the fore and main lower shrouds might be that big.

You might want to order a dozen of those Bluejacket combo units and see how they look.  Remember that on tiny scales like this the overall impression counts for a lot.  Conspicuously out-of-scale rigging fittings can wreck the appearance of a finished model.  But a discrepancy of a few thousandths of an inch in the diameter of the lower deadeyes might not make much difference.

The knot-and-glue approach deserves to be taken seriously.  I've seen some really beautiful models that were rigged that way.  Part of the secret to success in small-scale models is to know how to create the visual impression of a fully-rigged ship, without either messing up its scale proportions or going crazy.  And part of the secret to doing that is to decide, consciously and intelligently, what to include and what to leave out.

Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 4, 2006 8:51 AM

Smile [:)] Ha, au secours! A l'aide!

We discussed La Belle Poule in this forum some months ago.

Do not forget, that "La Belle Poule" depicted in Jean Boudriot's book is not the same "Belle Poule" as the Heller kit and the AAMM plans.

Heller kit and AAMM plans show the same vessel, that brought back emperor Napoleon's remains to France.

Jean Gaussens had sent me some pictures of his "Belle Poule" model scratchbuilt from the AAMM plans :

http://gallery.drydockmodels.com/album123

I have the AAMM plans.  Unfortunately, I do not have the Heller kit, so I can not compare them.

Michel

 

 

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