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Liberty ship porthole question

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  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Liberty ship porthole question
Posted by mfsob on Saturday, March 4, 2006 1:51 PM
Starting work on my 1/700 Skywave Liberty ship model, and I have good reference photos for almost everything except the aft end of the main deck house, at the main deck level. I'm sure there must be SOME portholes at that level, but I can't find any clear pictures showing that particular view. Anyone know?
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Saturday, March 4, 2006 3:51 PM

You really need to invest in the Tom's Modelworks CD.   It includes archive photos of WWII Liberties as well as photos of both the O'Brien in SFO and the Brown in Bal'mer.    Two pix of the O'Brien ...

Port side

 

Stbd side

You also need to see the pictures of Brownie -- The John Brown's personal "nose art"

 

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Saturday, March 4, 2006 6:12 PM
There's a reference CD there? *mumbles about how he failed to see that a few hours ago after ordering Tom's Liberty ship detail set* I'll be back in just a bit ...
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 4, 2006 6:14 PM
A friend of mine is one of America's Greatest Generation and served on a Liberty Ship in WWII.  Recently he bought a Liberty Ship kit through a relative in the U.S. (my friend lives overseas) and finds that he can't see well enough to assemble it. He's really depressed because he's wanted to do this kit for many years and is only now getting around to it.

Can you folks recommend a kit in a better scale for my friend,like a 1:350 or 1:96? Something larger than a 1/700.  If there is one I'd like to get it for him as a gift.
thanks!

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Saturday, March 4, 2006 6:39 PM

Tell him to look into the Trumpeter Liberty Ship in 1:350 scale.  It is sold as the SS Jeremiah O'Brien.  At 1:350 scale it is a tad over 15 inches LOA.  You can probably find one at the local Hobby Lobby for about 35 bucks (less on sale)

In larger scales, Bluejacket Shipcrafters makes some very nice wooden core kits of both a Liberty  and a Victory ship in 1:192 scale

http://www.bluejacketinc.com/kits/index.htm

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Saturday, March 4, 2006 6:42 PM

 mfsob wrote:
There's a reference CD there? *mumbles about how he failed to see that a few hours ago after ordering Tom's Liberty ship detail set* I'll be back in just a bit ...

http://www.tomsmodelworks.com/detail.asp?Specials|Liberty!Ship!Specials

The Tom's brass set plus the CD for 30 bucks.   Well worth it.

Phone or email Tom Harrison and tell him you want to change your order.  Tom is a good guy and will work with you,

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Saturday, March 4, 2006 8:29 PM

I hear you about the 1/700 scale, Jim Miller! It sounds like your friend and I started the same model at the same time - I'm doing the Skywave kit that I am going to finish as a generic early-war Liberty ship instead of the attack transport.

The Trumpter kit should give your friend big enough pieces to see. Just tell him to imagine something twice as large as what he's holding in his hand right now. Hope that's big enough, because quite frankly, if you take a look at the larger scale kits, you may be shocked by the prices. That's one reason I ended up building a 1/700 scale Victory ship for my Dad; that was his chosen mount during WWII.

  • Member since
    January 2005
Posted by Chris Friedenbach on Sunday, March 5, 2006 12:07 AM

There are four portholes on the main deck aft- one outboard of the door on either side, and then two in between the two doors. 

Tom’s photo CD is pretty thorough- he spent a couple of hours wandering around the ship taking photos and measurements.  Incidentally, the first photo that Ed posted includes a good view of me from the about the shoulders down!

Regards,

Chris Friedenbach
Crewmember, SS Jeremiah O’Brien

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Monday, March 6, 2006 9:07 AM

After finally studying my Skywave/Pit Road 1/700 Liberty ship kit intently over the weekend, there are a couple of odd things about it that I'm guessing are germane to the USN version but not the civilian version - but I have no idea what these things are:

  • The aft gun deck is extended forward almost to No. 5 hatch, and has what looks like cable reels molded on to it. This looks weird, and almost seems like it would interfere with the hatch.
  • The aft end of the supersturcture seems to go straight up to the bridge deck level. Is there a level or platform missing on the rear of the molding?
  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
Posted by onyxman on Monday, March 6, 2006 10:08 AM

After looking at lot's of Liberty ship photos while I did my Trumpeter kit it was obvious there was a lot of variation depending, I guess, on what yards they came out of. I'm sure Chris can answer this one better than anybody.

FWIW, here is the aft end of my Trumpeter Liberty:

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  • Member since
    January 2005
Posted by Chris Friedenbach on Monday, March 6, 2006 10:06 PM

The Liberty ships built in the first year or so of the program were all very similar, but as modifications to the original design were specified there began to be more and more variations between yards.  The ships that were converted for Naval service underwent even more changes.

I don’t have any photos of Bootes, so I can’t say for sure what the extension would have been for.  The area aft of the hatch does not need to be clear to handle cargo, so this would not have interfered.  The one item that was frequently added in this area was a locker for storing helium for barrage balloons- in the case of the O’Brien this is located under the forward edge of the gun deck on the port side. 

The deckhouse itself is set back something like six or eight feet from the front of the gun deck- on a ship with no helium locker the only large structure in this area would be an escape trunk about 3 foot square.  This was located on the centerline about a foot or so back from the forward edge of the gun deck, and extended all the way from the main deck up to the gun deck.

It was standard for Liberty ships to have a small area of open deck at the after end of the bridge deck.  This was pretty much dead space, so some later ships had this area enclosed (typically adding two cabins and a gyro room).  This would have been a desirable addition on a USN Liberty ship due to the larger crew they sailed with (150 to 200 sailors vs. 42 civilians and 15 to 30 Navy gunners on a merchant Liberty).

On other item to watch out for when modeling an early Liberty ship is the cutout in the bulwark between #4 and 5 hatches- this feature didn’t become standard until early 1943. 

Regards,

Chris Friedenbach
Crewmember, SS Jeremiah O’Brien

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 8:11 AM
Yeah, I've decided with this model that rather than fret over the maddeningly tiny details and engage in massive scratchbuilding and modifications, I am just going to fine tune what is already there. This means I am going to scratchbuild an anchor windlass under the forward gun mount, and add little things like hose racks and life rings and the goodies from the Toms Modelworks Liberty ship PE set, cut off that weird extension to the aft gun deck and delete the naval AK version masts and searchlight platform. But beyond that, I'm aiming for a generic Liberty ship that has seen some hard use in the North Atlantic - and have some fun with my newly acquire Rustall system and pastel chalks. Big Smile [:D]
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