lower, middle, upper gundecks on old sailing warships

Some examples:

1.   During the battle of Quiberon Bay on November 20, 1759, a rough sea was running, and ships of the line on both sides initially fought with their lower deck guns housed and lower lids closed.    But the English fleet under Admiral Hawke  out-numbered the French fleet under Admiral Conflans.    To even the odds, some French ships elected to open their lower ports and bring their lower battery into action.     Immediately the heavy sea caused their ships to begin flooding through the lower ports.   The 74 gun Superbe actually filled though her lower ports and capsized.    The French were compelled to shut the lower ports again and fight with their upper batteries only.

2.   During Anglo-Dutch wars, Dutch would confound the English by voluntarily giving up the weather gage.   This allows the English to assume by default the presumably advantageous position having their enamy under their lee.    It turns out that if the wind was brisk, having the weather guage was no advantage at all because the wind, blowing from the English to the Dutch, would cause English ships to list towards the dutch, and thereby putting the lower port lids of English ships so low that they have to remain shut during the battle.    This effectively deprives the English of their lower, heaviest battery.   The Dutch, on the other hand, can use all their guns against the English to the windward because their ships list away from the English.



 

Heller seems to be at odds over this subject.  Both the Royal Louis and Pheonix came with enough cannon, as shown in the instructions, to put either on one side or row.  They didn't provide enough cannons to show them all run out.

I like to show a mix.  Some ports open, some half open, and some closed.

Scott

In 1797 Indefatigable and Amazon (English frigates) took on Droits de l'Homme  (French 74) and beat her because the heavy weather conditions prevented the French ship from opening her lower deck gunports.

That said, I am with the conservatives... either open all the ports of your model, or close them all. Of course, if you are doing an at-sea diorama, that's another matter...

Here's an interesting discussion on "gun decking".

Howdy!

Read the history of the Swedish warship Vasa...sailed out into the harbor on it's maiden voyage, flags flying, people cheering, all gun ports open and along comes a gust of wind and over she goes, sunk because those lower ports were open. I think it's entirely up to the modeler to display his ship as he sees fit! The Vasa, by the way, was raised and is its own museum in, I believe, Stockholm.

Enjoy!

LAV Driver has it right.  There are plenty of instances on record in which two-deckers weren't able to open the ports on their lower decks due to the weather.

Furthermore, there were plenty of reasons for opening gunports other than wanting to fire guns through them.  Particularly on board a big fighting ship in a warm climate, the ports provided desperately-needed ventilation.  And running the guns out significantly increased the amount of deck space.

Plenty of display conventions in ship modeling have little or nothing to do with literal, scale fidelity.  Surely all of us admire the wonderful old English "Board Room" models, with their unplanked bottoms and, in many cases, their beautifully-executed rigging.  But no real ship ever looked like that.

I have to disagree with Mr. Mondfelt on this one.  In my opinion there are plenty of "legitimate" ways to exhibit a ship model.  To my eye a ship-of-the-line with all the ports on one deck open and all those on another closed would look a little odd, but I firmly believe that sort of decision should be the preserve of the individual modeler. 

Isn't it true that sometimes the seas were too rough to permit lower ports to be open? I know little about such things but it seems that a ship under way in rough seas could take in water through lower ports, maybe. I guess this would  be especially true if a ship was sitting lower in the water, due to heavy cargo. Can't wait to hear from an expert!

Devin

Interesting subject. While Mondfeld may sound a little bit too apodictic - and while I hasten to add that I'm far from an expert in these matters, there being more knowledgeable persons here on the board - I tend to think of his statement as being by and large correct. While there may be certain situations where a two decker would use only the upper battery  these seem to me to be so extraordinary that they don't suffice to question Mondfeld's general rule.

In which situation would someone willingly leave the hardest-hitting part of his weaponry out of the fight? Perhaps in a situation where severe weather conditions make opening the lower ports difficult. But then it's questionable whether these conditions would allow any engagement at all. In all other situations, even - or better particularly - against lesser-armed opponents I would want to end the fight quickly by a decisive blow.

Jorit