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Trumpeter's USS England

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 4:54 AM
MS-11 was from Captain Williamson's book Anti-Submarine Warfare in the Pacific and Al Ross' book Anatomy of a Ship, The Destroyer Escort USS England. Plus several interviews with the crew. Sea Blue is all the crew could get their hands on at Ulithi. She was painted while anchored in the harbor. When she returned to San Diego the Captain of the Port ordered her painted to hide the battle damage and all that was available was  Haze gray MS-14. The  picture of England pulling into Philapelphia she had been painted gray. England was to be converted to  APD-41 but was written off as a TCL, total constructive loss by Naval and civilian engineers. I know the MS's do not follow Navy doctrine, but the crew did the best they could under the circumstances. She was painted by hand on the last two occassions. This had nothing to do with following the different measures at the time. It was ad lib painting job, for lack of a better term. She was painted solid colors both times due to what paint was available. She was only in the last two schemes for a couple of months before heading to the breakers. She was painted while floating and not in dry dock.
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 10:34 PM

What are your references for Measure 11 and Measure 14 in 1945?

Measure 11 was overall Sea Blue (5-S)   The Sea Blue paint had severe chalking characteristics and proved to be unsatisfactory.    Sea Blue was replaced by Navy Blue (5-N) in very late 1941/early 1942 and in June'42 Measure 21 (Overall Navy Blue) was officially promulgated in the Second Revision of Ships-2, replacing Measure 11.

5-S and 5-N were totally different paint colors.  The 1929 Munsell reference for 5-S was 2.5 PB 3.6/4    The 1929 Munsell number for 5-N was 5 PB 3/2 -- a much darker color.

An excellent reference online reference on Naval Camouflage is contained in Alan Raven's series of articles titled The Development of Naval Camouflage which originally appeared in the Plastic Ship Modeler magazine.  They have been reprinted on the Ship Camouflage website.

http://shipcamouflage.com/development_of_naval_camouflage.htm

Your description of 1945 Measure 14 being Haze Gray is also problematic.   Measure 14 was a mid-war Ocean Gray (5-O) measure with or without Haze Gray (5-H) topworks.  In the spring of 1945, Measure 21 was modified to use neutral gray paints as opposed to the purple/blue paints used previously.

The description of the 1945 Measure 21 (Gray) version from Raven's article is:

MEASURE 21 (1945 revision) 
Modification of original Measure 21. Carried by all types of major surface combatants from the spring of 1945.

Colors: #7 Navy Gray, #4 Deck Gray 20. 
Vertical surfaces from the boot topping up to and including masts, topmasts and yards - #7 Navy Gray. 
Decks and horizontal surfaces - #4 deck Gray. 
Counter shading - none.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Trumpeter's USS England
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 8:06 PM

The correct measures for England are as follows, in case you want to build her. She was listed as wearing MS-21 and MS-22. She never wore MS-22.

MS-21   8/19/43-8/26/43  San Francisco

MS-32  5/11/44-5/17/44   Manus in dry dock under availability

MS-11  1/9/45-1/12/45     Ulithi, painted by hand with mops, rags, brushes and rollers

MS-14  6/25/45-6/29/45   San Diego, again painted by hand to hide battle damage.

The box cover shows England pulling into Philladelphia Naval Yard, MS-14, haze gray.

 

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