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Armament question for Schnellboote experts

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  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Armament question for Schnellboote experts
Posted by schoonerbumm on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 1:17 AM

Planning for my first group build. I've decided that I need a break from the 18th century, but now I've found another mystery. I thought modern ships would involve less conjecture.

I've found drawings in several references showing S-170 series boats with quad 20 mm flakvierlings in the stern mounts.  They usually show the 30 mm MG 138 in a bow Drehring mounting with a 'D' shaped mounting instead of the circular 20 mm tub. I've never seen any photos with either type of gun mounted on an S-Boote. Squadron cites that a 'small number of boats.. were field equiped with the four barrel...'. Classic Warships states that it was 'widely believed' that the 30 mm mount never made production and therefore was never installed.

What is the concensus on the flak vierling and 30 mm mounts?

Has anyone ever seen photos or primary sources confirming (or denying) installation of either?

Has anyone seen photos the bow gun tubs on late boats? Were they circular or 'D' shaped?

Speaking of 'D' shapes, will Anna Nicole soon be a multi-millionaire?

ahhh... the mysteries of life.

 

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 9:20 AM
It's likely that the 30mm might have appeared on a limited basis, but I doubt it.

The 30mm was a problematic weapon - hence its delay into the arena.

The S-700 class of boats that were supposed to have the D-shaped tub were reportedly completed as standard S-100s.

I've never seen anything other than blueprints of S-boats with those configurations. In fact, I've never seen any photos of S-boats carrying a Flakveirlings either.

Jeff
  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 10:03 AM
Jeff is correct.  There is no evidence of that gun was ever mounted on any Schnellboot, even as an experiment.  It appears that it was only a paper design and if the war went on longer than it did, and that Germany was able to maintain production without interruption - then, yes, they would have been placed on the boats.  In many 'expert's' view - that'd be something akin to a Kriegsmarine "Luft-46" thing and I tend to agree.
 
Garth 
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Stockton,Ca
Posted by Hippy-Ed on Friday, May 5, 2006 3:10 PM
If I'm not mistaken (& Garth, please correct me if I am) The Allied Coastal Forces vol. 1 has alot of references to the  Schnellboot. I seem to recall this as I almost bought it instead of ACF vol.2 (which I was after)
hth,
Eddie

If you lose your sense of humor, you've lost everything
Uhu
  • Member since
    May 2006
Posted by Uhu on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:49 PM

The oft-republished "S-700" class plans were a design proposal, never realized.  This was due in large part to a production failure in the specified 3,000 HP MB 518 engine needed to compensate for the extra weight.  As stated, these boats were finished as S-100 types and did not feature any of the proposed upgrades such as the rear firing torpedo tubes or a 3cm bow gun.   I have photos of an S-700 series boat, it is indistinguishable from an S-100 boat.  2cm Flakvierling mounts were fitted to a very few S-boote.  I don't have hard numbers, but base my estimate on how infrequently they appear in photographs. 

Dave

www.prinzeugen.com

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 1:38 PM
I don't remember alot of Vol. I Eddie, I mainly focused on Volume II.  You could be right, but ask Dr. Ross.
 
Garth
  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 1:45 PM
Dave,
 
Was this what we were discussing privately last week, sir?
 
Garth
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Stockton,Ca
Posted by Hippy-Ed on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:35 PM
 PTConsultingNHR wrote:
I don't remember alot of Vol. I Eddie, I mainly focused on Volume II.  You could be right, but ask Dr. Ross.
 
Garth


I was just looking at the dust cover for ACF vol. 2 and on the inside back flap it mentions ACF vol. 1:
Fairmile Designs and US Subchasers.
hth,
Eddie
If you lose your sense of humor, you've lost everything
  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:49 AM
Eddie,
 
Since Schnellboote were torpedo boats; they would have been mentioned in Vol. II if at all.  But, remember, the series is called Allied Coastal Forces.  Fairmile is a British ML design, they could be configured as MLs, MGBs, in some cases as MTBs and as Air/Sea Rescue Craft ... they were similar in length and layout as the 110' USN SCs, in fact, the USN used a few of the Canadian built Fairmiles as SCs.
 
Garth, da judge
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Thursday, May 18, 2006 9:43 AM
Ok, does anyone make the depth charges for the Revell S-100?  I can't seem to locate any, but don't want to break out the lathe and casting stuff unless I have to...help!
http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:07 AM
I'm not aware of anyone that makes them for the Kriegsmarine specifically, were German D/C differently shaped than the USN/RN ones?  Could one get by with modifying some of H-R Products D/Cs in  1:72?
 
I don't know Eddie - Do what you think is best.  It's YOUR model ...........
 
Garth
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Thursday, May 18, 2006 3:49 PM

  Well, if you don't know of anyone, then there probably aren't any...and yes, they were vastly different in shape and structure from the allied "cans".  Hey, I can open up a side business making 72nd scale german depth charges. I'll probably become incredibly rich and famous...perhaps marry Anne Nicole...

 

                    greg

 

  

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by Jeff Herne on Thursday, May 18, 2006 3:52 PM
KM depth charges are different from USN variety... I've turned a set for my 1/32 S-boat, I have drawings somewhere...if you want some for the 1/72 kit, email me, we'll chat.

Jeff
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Stockton,Ca
Posted by Hippy-Ed on Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:23 PM
 PTConsultingNHR wrote:
I don't remember alot of Vol. I Eddie, I mainly focused on Volume II.  You could be right, but ask Dr. Ross.
 
Garth


Thanks for the suggestion GarthBig Smile [:D] I did & he said nope. ACF V.1 covers the FAIRMILE A,B,C,D,F & H, and the 110'SC.
So, there;s the offical lowdown on that.
If you lose your sense of humor, you've lost everything
  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Friday, May 19, 2006 6:20 AM
Well, ...
 
Didn't I say that in another post?
 
Garth
  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by PTConsultingNHR on Friday, May 19, 2006 6:23 AM
Marry Anna Nicole?  Gaw, NO WAY Jose, gimme Mariska Hargatay.
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Posted by schoonerbumm on Saturday, May 20, 2006 11:33 AM

Garth,  As the man in the old TV show used to say... "You Asked for It!"   but it looks like you've got some stiff competition....

 

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/3593/Events/3593/MariskaHar_Grani_5989872_400.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Hargitay,%20Mariska

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    August 2003
Posted by Winks on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 9:54 AM

As a matter of fact, Schatton-Modellbau make a set of 1/72 German "Waterbombs - 150" which were used on E-boats.  They are resin castings.  Quite excellent and quite expensive ($21).  But, there is nothing else for the Schnellboote.  One method is to cut aluminum rod in the correct lengths and then either reduce a picture of the ends on a good color Xerox or scan a picture of such, reduce and enhance it with Photoshop, print it at high resolution and glue the ends onto the pieces of rod.  The effect is quite realistic.

Kevin

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