Another weird ship modeling tradition?

NASA 736 wrote:

Ah-hah! this looks like a job for some more of Chuck's usless trivia! ...schoonerbum you are pretty close!  In the world of drafting or in the case of our English brethern...draughting. We find there are two primary methods of representation. "First Angle Projection" as practiced across the pond, and the ever popular "Third Angle Projection" as utilized here in the good ole U.S. of A.  What the heck is our hero talking about? Both projections utilize the top view, and front views the same way. The difference comes in the next view drawn. In the British veign, they draw the right side of an object next, (think of a backwards "L" for the layout.)  In 3rd angle, we here draw the left side next in a convential "L" shaped lay out. First Angle, (BRITS) Eg.                                                                                                                                TOP VIEW HERE                        RIGHT SIDE VIEW HERE                     FRONT VIEW HERE   Third Angle, (YANKS) Eg.                            TOP VIEW HERE                        FRONT VIEW HERE                             LEFT SIDE VIEW HERE         There are of course variation on this theme, as well as, auxillary views, details, cut-a-ways, cross sections and on and on, ad nausium...  But these are the basics from which all else has come. Most all of drafting as we know it has sprung from nautical roots, and the British system. As I understand it we split from the British system about the time of the war of 1812. (We'll show them, we'll draw the other side of the boat!) And there you have it. Trivia and away-y-y-y-y!!!

Ah Ron? Would those be lima beans, kidney beans, or...? No, wait a minute: they'd be Navy beans, wouldn't they? Cheers, John Snyder

That would be lack of coffee beans given the hour I posted.......that or simple mindmush form drawing USS Sampson's Ms16 pattern from the direct sunight side of slightly overexposed photos and trying to determine if that's a shaodw or the line between white & Thayer blue.........;)

Today's project was *much* easier, got started on the Ms32/3d patterns for the class.

Yep, variations on a theme.  Nothing in the old DOD MIL-STD-100 or it's successor ANSI Y-14, which says you can't do it that way. I have in fact, used both 1st and 3rd angle projections in the same project, for the USN, and conversely had the Canadian Armed Forces (Naval) request all 3rd angle projection. (Go figure..)

Ah Ron? Would those be lima beans, kidney beans, or...? No, wait a minute: they'd be Navy beans, wouldn't they?

"He who would pun, would pick a pocket" - Stephen Maturin

Ah Ron? Would those be lima beans, kidney beans, or...? No, wait a minute: they'd be Navy beans, wouldn't they?

Cheers,

John Snyder

NASA 736 wrote:

Ah-hah! this looks like a job for some more of Chuck's usless trivia! ...schoonerbum you are pretty close!  In the world of drafting or in the case of our English brethern...draughting. We find there are two primary methods of representation. "First Angle Projection" as practiced across the pond, and the ever popular "Third Angle Projection" as utilized here in the good ole U.S. of A. There are of course variation on this theme, as well as, auxillary views, details, cut-a-ways, cross sections and on and on, ad nausium...  But these are the basics from which all else has come. Most all of drafting as we know it has sprung from nautical roots, and the British system. As I understand it we split from the British system about the time of the war of 1812. (We'll show them, we'll draw the other side of the boat!)

Ah-hah! this looks like a job for some more of Chuck's usless trivia!

...schoonerbum you are pretty close! 

In the world of drafting or in the case of our English brethern...draughting. We find there are two primary methods of representation. "First Angle Projection" as practiced across the pond, and the ever popular "Third Angle Projection" as utilized here in the good ole U.S. of A. 

What the heck is our hero talking about?

Both projections utilize the top view, and front views the same way. The difference comes in the next view drawn. In the British veign, they draw the right side of an object next, (think of a backwards "L" for the layout.)  In 3rd angle, we here draw the left side next in a convential "L" shaped lay out.

First Angle, (BRITS) Eg.                                              

                                                                                 TOP VIEW HERE

                     RIGHT SIDE VIEW HERE                     FRONT VIEW HERE

Third Angle, (YANKS) Eg.      

                     TOP VIEW HERE

                     FRONT VIEW HERE                             LEFT SIDE VIEW HERE      

There are of course variation on this theme, as well as, auxillary views, details, cut-a-ways, cross sections and on and on, ad nausium...  But these are the basics from which all else has come. Most all of drafting as we know it has sprung from nautical roots, and the British system. As I understand it we split from the British system about the time of the war of 1812. (We'll show them, we'll draw the other side of the boat!)

And there you have it. Trivia and away-y-y-y-y!!!

Come to think of it - a friend of mine who was in training as a naval architect with Gibbs and Cox once told me one of the first lessons he got from his first instructor in the subject:  "A lines plan always shows the ship from the starboard side.  If you draw the port side first, the ship will sink."

How all this fits together (the drafting tradition, the officers coming on board via the starboard ladder, and the starboard side being the "dress side" of a model) I have no idea.  At this point I wonder if anybody does.

Interesting observation....

Plans almost universally show the vessel from the starboard side. English, French, German, Swedish, and Spanish plans in my library are virtually all (exceptions are a couple of Spanish profile drawings and one English framing drawing) from the starboard side.

Maybe because we read left to right?

But you are right. 95% of the photos of models are from the port side.

Ahh.... more things for me to loose sleep over.

I have to confess this is utterly new to me.  I can't recall having seen a kit (in any medium) with a brass nameplate included, and I haven't noted any conspicuous preference for either side.  Maybe that's a reflection on the sorts of models in which I'm most interested; I've obviously missed something.

My primary interest for many years has been sailing ships.  In that area there seems to be a sort of a tradition (though it's not observed universally by any means) that the model ought to be observed from the starboard side.  I've read that point in a couple of books a long time ago (I can't remember which ones).  One of them added that "the starboard side of a ship is the dress side."  That's probably connected with the old tradition that officers come on board via the ladder on the starboard side, while other ranks come aboard to port.

I guess I try to show off the model from the starboard side if it's convenient.  But if the layout of the room, display case, etc. makes the model look better from the port side, that's how I turn it.  And I like to put the nameplate someplace (e.g., under the bow facing forward) where it works either way.  Alternatively, it's often possible to make the nameplate movable.  On my little model of the frigate Hancock I fastened the nameplate down to the baseboard with double-sided tape.  If the model ever needs to be turned around, I'll turn the nameplate around too.

Well itmight be related to the history of the terms port (or larboard) and starboard (steeringboard).  Most people would see a ship tied up at a wharf, usually port side to; makes sense to put the name plate on the side most people recognize. 

On most of my model bases, I usually attach the name plate on the starboard side or under the  bow.