I'll probably get shot for this but this kit makes me long for the quality of Lindberg kits......

Ron Smith wrote:

Someone gave me a Trumpeter The Sullivans today and words to accurately sum up just how bad it is would all be censored . I really didn't think it was possible but they made a crappier kit than their North Carolina. No joke the USS The Sullivans by Trumpeter is an almost complete waste of plastic. You can use the hull and major structures but if you want something that doesn't resemble the old Lindberg motorized battleships you might as well resign yourself to sanding off all the detail including everything but the locators for the deckhouses off the decks. Plan on puttying and sanding the turret seams and replacing the turret hatches, don't even bother looking at the directors, 20mm's and 40mm's Swipe a set of stacks from a Tamiya kit, sand the "walkways" off all the decks, replace all hatches/doors/scuttles. Sand off and replace all the bracing details (a fair number of which are not even close to plumb), don't forget to sand off the half-assed attempts at ladders (at least the aztek stairs are separate parts). Will Trumpeter *ever* get a clue what hawse pipes are and what they look like? Also plan on moving the hull side exits for the hawse pipes, no biggie since what's there is not even a bad joke. While you're swiping the stacks from a Tamiya kit swipe the main director, torpedo tubes, torpedo tube doghouse, rafts and aft prop-shaft brace (the thing Trumpeter molded is more appropriate to a BB it's so clunky). So-so attempt at K-guns. What I think are torpedo and AA directors at best vaguley resemble the real thing.....if that. The depth charge loading davits are clunky (OK, so I'm being overly kind there). Plan on somehow making chocks and replacing the anemic bitts. I'll give them this, while crudely molded the props are slightly better than Tamiya's in shape and you can actually use the prop shafts. It's obvious they copied Tamiya's kit but the result looks like what a Xerox machine on a bad acid trip might produce. They should slap a $2 price sticker on this pig and sell it at the dollar store to kids. Kids won't mind $2 for something to throw together with tube glue and glossy square bottle Testors paint to have something to shoot at with BB guns then give the old Viking funeral with firecrackers.

Ron;

I have not personally seen this kit, however if it is anything like the care the actual ship has had it would not surprise me. I recently visited the ship in Buffalo New York and I am sorry to report the care (or lack there of) extends from the horrible repainting of the ship right through to the displays in the "museum" everything seems to be cobbled together at the dime store level.

Cheers;

Gregory

gburdon wrote:

I have not personally seen this kit, however if it is anything like the care the actual ship has had it would not surprise me. I recently visited the ship in Buffalo New York and I am sorry to report the care (or lack there of) extends from the horrible repainting of the ship right through to the displays in the "museum" everything seems to be cobbled together at the dime store level.

Ron;

Now I see what you mean. That has to be the biggest waste of good styrene I have seen in a long time.

It reminds me of kits my friends and I used to build to blow up on the creek behind the house when we were kids. The kind of kit you bought for nothing and laughed yourself silly when it blew apart with some homemade firecrackers in the hull.

There is the hope of a re-release or two or three until they get it right eh!

Cheers;

Gregory

Well Ron, I guess what they say about about a picture being worth a thousand words is true.  Initially, I thought your first post was probably something of rant.  After seeing the comparitiv photos, it seems as though you were actually a bit restrained!  Although I'm still surprised at the how much more kits cost these days compared to what I spent as a kid, I don't mind too much if the kit is quality kit.  If picked up something like that, I would probably immediately consign it to future use for testing experimental building and painting techniques.

Andy

gburdon wrote:

Now I see what you mean. That has to be the biggest waste of good styrene I have seen in a long time. It reminds me of kits my friends and I used to build to blow up on the creek behind the house when we were kids. The kind of kit you bought for nothing and laughed yourself silly when it blew apart with some homemade firecrackers in the hull. There is the hope of a re-release or two or three until they get it right eh!

Now you see why I mentioned the old Lindberg battleships, they compare favorably.

ABARNE wrote:

Well Ron, I guess what they say about about a picture being worth a thousand words is true.  Initially, I thought your first post was probably something of rant.  After seeing the comparitiv photos, it seems as though you were actually a bit restrained!  Although I'm still surprised at the how much more kits cost these days compared to what I spent as a kid, I don't mind too much if the kit is quality kit.  If picked up something like that, I would probably immediately consign it to future use for testing experimental building and painting techniques.

scottrc wrote:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has felt this way about most of the Trumpeter releases after buildnig one.  It seemed whenever I questioned the accuracy and engineering of one of their kits, I needed to prepare for a flame.

i bought 2 of their chinese destroyers 1/350 scale and

i have come to the conclusion that it would be less work to melt them down and shape the plastic rather than build the models  

When I first saw and advertisement of the Sullivans release from Trumpeter, I was anxious to get one. Now that I see what I was waiting for, I think I hold off until Trumpeter does a complete overhaul! (Yea Right).

PanzerWulff wrote:

Ok being the "Tread Head" that I am I had gone out and bought this kit to try to build my fathers ship DD-510 USS Eaton which was a square bridge fletcher like the USS The Sullivans.But what I first thought was a good kit turns out to be in the eyes of the guys on this thread who know WAY more than I do about model ships a TOTAL LEMON. I was going to try to get some AM detail parts to spruce it up even before reading this thread, but other than the PE sets I was going to get where can i find some AM 20mm's at least. Some of the probs mentioned I can deal with myself (such as the doghouse inaccuracies) and the detail sets should deal with some of the others but those 20mm's are horrendous as you guys mention. Any help for this Rookie Ship modeler would be greatly appreciated

While Ron checks your credit rating - here is what is probably the top of the line in the replacement detail sets

L'Arsenal's twin 40

L'Arsenal's 5"/38 single

L'Arsenal's Mk37 director.

L'Arsenal also makes quad 40s, 20mm Orelikons, Mk51 directos and other details.   They are likely the best available.  Jacques Druel of L'Arsenal has indicated that he may package a Fletcher refit set.

Toms Modelworks, Gold Medal Models, Flagship Models and Eduard all offer aftermarket PE sets.  The Eduard is for the Tamiya (unless they are bringing a new set) so discard that set.    Of the remaining three, I think I'd recommend the GMM as the most comprehensive.

Tom Harrison of Toms has worked with Trumpeter in the past, and as a result he has gotten early preview samples.  Tom has reworked his old Fletcher set for the Tamiya into some new items for the Trump.   It might not be a bad way to go.

Rusty White of Flagship has not indicated if he is going to update his set.  It is a good set to begin with.

Yankee Modeworks has also indicated that they may be considering a refit package of parts from their resin USS Johnston kit, probably not to include the PE fret.

pmm736 wrote:

that L'Arsenal stuff looks very nice!  Is there a distributor here in the states?  I went to their website and found it a bit confusing.

In the States, check Pacific Front Hobbies

http://www.pacificfront.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=38_105

Call Bill Gruner at PacFront instead of trying to email him.   He runs a one man shop and does not answer email as fast (or if ever) as we would like him to.   Otherwise he is a good man to deal with.

Also check White Ensign Models, though they are in the UK.  Purchase with a credit card & let them handle the currency conversion.   Shipping is fast from the UK John Snyder at WEM is good folk and well informed

http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/

EdGrune wrote:

While Ron checks your credit rating - here is what is probably the top of the line in the replacement detail sets

I deliberately asked those two questions to determine what level of fiddliness he is comfortable with and what his budget is. I could easily write up a laundry list of "the best" and quadruple the cost of the kit, that is not my goal. I want to recommend the best bang for the buck at the level he is willing to deal with.

Ron Smith wrote:

My first question, how deep are your pockets for this project? Just give me a rough amount and it'll help point you in the right directions. Second question since you're a treadhead, can you deal with Aber German tool clasps and/or Modelkasten tracks? That will help me tell you what to get and what to avoid. really good 20mm's are about as fiddly if not moreso.

EdGrune wrote:

pmm736 wrote: that L'Arsenal stuff looks very nice!  Is there a distributor here in the states?  I went to their website and found it a bit confusing. In the States, check Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=38_105 Call Bill Gruner at PacFront instead of trying to email him.   He runs a one man shop and does not answer email as fast (or if ever) as we would like him to.   Otherwise he is a good man to deal with. Also check White Ensign Models, though they are in the UK.  Purchase with a credit card & let them handle the currency conversion.   Shipping is fast from the UK John Snyder at WEM is good folk and well informed http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/

Ed,  Thanks much for the links.  I've ordered from White Ensign before and they seem to have everything I need.

PanzerWulff wrote:

I am more used tothe indie tracks that come with the DML armor kits but i have used modelkasten tracks on 1of my tigers and a panzerIII based wespe. as for cost I could probably afford to sink an additional $75 or so after the PE set at this time but i am willing to pay more over time as this is to be a Gift to my father BTW I was planning to go with the GMM PE set

Ron Smith wrote:

L'Arsenal, WEM or Corsair Armada 5" turrets