Never seen this incarnation of Heller's Nina...

This is a new one to me, too - and I agree:  it's entirely believable.  I don't see the Heller name or logo on the box, but it's pretty clear that it is indeed a reincarnation of the Heller Nina.  I've seen Heller kits pop up under the labels of other continental companies from time to time; this appears to be another example.

Hmmm, not sure this is the Heller model, Occidental kits come with cloth sails and parts in a strong plactic, they are nice models even left unpainted.

Michel

 

Are you sure this is the Nina? 

I don't know much about the famous Columbus boats, but I do know a traditional Dutch caravel by general description and appearance.

During 1984-85 I watched one of these go through the final stages of construction in Winchester Bay, Oregon (USA).  A man and his wife were recreating a traditional Dutch caravel from the same era.  The only difference of course was that their boat had a diesel engine as well.  The woodwork was beautiful.  As far as I know the boat is still there today.

When I introduced the pretty little boat in harbor to a friend he said these boats were built for river travel and not ideal for crossing the sea.  I never really questioned him since he seemed to be a fairly informed student of nautical history. 

Anyone else have any insights?

Hello everyone!

I build plastic models, specially ship and airplane models.
I´d like to make some considerations about this kind of ship.
This is a portuguese ship called "caravela" - by the way, I´m portuguese ;) lol! - and we used it between XV and XVI centuries, during the discovery voyages. The spanish, for example, also used it, like the "Niña" for example, but probably with another design (in those days there were no ship plans so we don´t know exactly how they looked like).
The caravel had latin sails (triangular sails), was conceived for the high seas, could navigate with contrary winds and we have used it to explore the entire west african coast.
In 1487/1488, Bartolomeu Dias passed the Cape of Torments in one of this ships. After this voyage, our king D. João II changed the name of the cape to Cape of the Good Hope. In 1498, Vasco da Gama reached India, but he used a different kind of ship called "Nau" (it looks like a carrac). Two years later, in 1500, when Pedro Álvares Cabral went to India, after he had discovered Brasil, with a large fleet of thirteen ships, Bartolomeu Dias, one of his captains, died when his ship sunk, trying to pass the Cape of Good Hope (the same cape he called of Torments).
This is a amazing subject and I love to talk/write about it! Forgive me if I´m writing to much ;)
Regarding this kit, it has Ocidental moulds, different from Niña (but Ocidental also make a kit of Niña). I´m currently building two Ocidental caravels of 1/250 scale, minikits. I want to make a little diorama with a carved sea.
Until today, we have made three caravel replics. The first one, called "Bartolomeu Dias" was given to South Africa in 1988, celebrating this way the 500 years of Bartolomeu Dias first voyage to Cape of Good Hope. The others are "Boa Esperança" ("Good Hope") and "Vera Cruz" ("Real Cross" - the old name of Brasil).
If you want to know more about this ships, you can take a look on this sites, for example:
http://www.aporvela.pt/
http://descobrimentos.no.sapo.pt/caravela.htm
I apologize for my errors, but I don´t write english very well.
Finally, I´d like to congratulate all of you who make and participate in this excellent forum.
Greetings,
Filipe Ângelo

It sounds like several of us were misled by the fact that the box top picture looks so much like the old Heller Nina kit.  I've never bought an Occidental kit, but several Forum participants have had good things to say about the company.  Maybe I should try one - though they're hard to find in North Carolina.

Filipe - Welcome to the Forum!  There is no need whatever to apologize for your English; you use the language better than many Americans do.  I wish I had the competence in any foreign language that your first post demonstrates.

Excellent English, Filipe!  Good info on the caravela.

As for my thoughts of the Dutch riverboat, re-looking this one over I see the differences now.  My bad.

Hi everyone,

Well, thank you very much for your warm welcome. I really apreciated your answers to my post and I´m glad knowing that I have contributed a little to this hobby.
I discovered this forum only recently, and I enjoy to read your messages about sailing ships.
Jtilley, I have read your posts about Lidberg´s Jolly Rodger/La Flore, Heller´s Le Superbe, etc. and you do have a great knowledge about sailing ships. I have already learned something with you.

Have a nice day,
Filipe Ângelo

I hope noone is offended that I put this fairly old thread up on the first page again, but the model arrived today, and from a first glance into the box I have to say it looks better than a comparable Heller offering (it is indeed markedly different from the Heller kit). It's quite an interesting experience to open a plastic kit of a sailing ship and not to be greeted by vacformed sails, but to find sails from sme kind of linen; although they are little too heavy for my taste it is definitely a different idea.

I don't have a camera with me at the moment but will try to post some pictures later.

Jorit

Filipe, you are godsend here !

May I ask you about the company "Occidental Replicas" ? Zvezda bought the moulds of their big scale ships and put them to its catalogue, albeit under different names.

From the Zvezda website, I looked to the "Nina"s parts shots. I instantly recognised the way that the kit was designed: Keel is a separate piece and two half hulls is glued to this keel. It was the same style of Revell's "Nao San Gabriel". I bet the Revell kit is in fact the Oriental replicas 1/100 nao kit reboxed. And I bet again, that the announced Zvezda "Conquistadores ship" will turn up to be the Occidental/Revell Nao

I have the Nao as issued by Revell. It's a magnificent scale model and undoubtedly the best plastic model of a carrack in the market. Zvezda "Nina"s parts' shots are present on the company's website. She looks as much superb as the Nao.

a few online retaliers has the Occidental Replicas ship kits list. From them I saw a 1/75 "Rabelo boat" and, 100 $ question: 1/200 portuguese 19th century frigate "Dom Fernando II e Gloria". Rabelo boat is the model of a very interesting local portuguese craft used to carry porto wine casks. The big piece, the frigate, is the model of a warship of 53 guns built in 1843 for east indies service and currently a museum ship. Am I right ? Yet her look aroused me suspicions of a rebox fraud possibility: that of Heller's 1/200 La Belle Poule. But if I'm wrong, hear ye all sailing era fans: We have a fourth different plastic model of a frigate in the market ! (We had to content us until now with various versions of constitution, modifying endlessly Lindberg's la flore and struggling with heller's La Belle Poule). Zvezda will be issuing Dom Fernando as the "Acheron" (what a fraud this is !) towards the end of this year or in 2007.

so, Filipe, may you clear us if the Dom Fernando is an authentic kit or a rebox if possible, please ?

Thanks in Advance !

Kapudan,

that's some very useful information indeed, particularly about the 1/200 frigate - if it is indeed not the La Belle Poule that would be great news.

I agree that the Nina on the Zvezda site is definitely the Occidental one, lacking only the linen sails; I have some reservations as to the origin of the "Conquistadores ship", the boxart looks more like an old Heller kit, and other kits in the Zvezda range come from Heller (like what they call the "Sirius"...).

Jorit

Kapudan and Jwintjes,

I´m looking now the Niña´s parts shots at the Zvezda website and I think you´re right, saying this is the Ocidental kit of the Portuguese caravela. It´s an enlarged version of my two minikits of the caravela in 1:250 scale. I can recognize the curve of the stem, which is more pronounced than the Heller´s Niña, the shape/proportions of the deck and hull, curved yards, etc.
As for the "Conquistadores ship" I don´t know if it is the Revell/Ocidental´s nau São Gabriel, because I dont´t find it at the English version of the Zvezda website. The Russian version shows a XVI century ship (N. 9001) and I think this is another ship than the São Gabriel because the poop looks different. Besides this Zvezda kit has a mizzen topsail and the nau São Gabriel hasn´t it. I also agree saying this is a Heller or even an Airfix kit.
You´re right about the Rabelo boat and the frigate Dom Fernando II e Glória. The first one was used in the Douro river to carry the port wine casks, like you said. The frigate is suffering a major refit, so we cannot visit her at the moment (!"%(/=%?#&+*)!!!!!!!!! :(.
You can see a photo of Dom Fernando, caravelas and naus at:
http://museu.marinha.pt/Museu/Site/PT/GaleriaDigital/Fotografias/?sub=Modelos#
Unfortunately, I never saw any Dom Fernando kit (or I would buy it. Lol!), but I hope this is not the Heller´s La Belle Poule, like Jwintjes said. In fact there are many different details like the poop galleries, sprit sail yard, obviously the figure head...

Filipe

Obrigado Filipe ! The picture in zvezda website is actually that old Heller Santa Maria, already released for russian market. "Conquistadores Ship" is an incoming release for this year. As for frigate, geez, it seems that we have to wait 'till zvezda releases its "Acheron" (!)

necessary edit: zvezda kit #9001 is the ex-heller 1/200 galleon "elizabethan"(!), another awful hoax upon that spanish galleon hull. the cyrillic explanation also says that it is the elisabethan. "Conquistadores Ship" is still not on the weblist, and I again bet, it will turn up to be occidental's nao