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Scratch Building an RC wooden Lobster Boat

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  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Scratch Building an RC wooden Lobster Boat
Posted by Donnie on Friday, June 16, 2006 11:28 PM
I was wondering if there is a formula or a rule of thumb that I would use to design a hull (from Wood) that actually floats like it is supposed to, but I can put a motor-prop and servo in to make it manuverable in water. The boat would not have to be anything particular in scale, but lets say that you want to just design something from scratch. Lets say for instance a Lobster Boat that would be maybe 30" long. I was thinking that there has to be rules to go by to make such a vessle not only float like it is supposed to, but manuver in the water. Are there weights or whatever that I put in the hull to balance it out? I don't know - not an expert here on this. What keeps the boat from tipping over all the time? Sorry to ask such dumb questions. But, I thought before the summer comes to an end, I would like trying my hand at designing a basic Lobster Boat and putting a 2 channel Radio in it (rudder and motor) about 30" long. And it wouldn't stop at just the boat, I would have to figure out what size and pitch of prop to use and what power motor to use, etc and the list goes on.
BTW- I only want Electric motor if I can get by with it - no gas for now.

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    October 2005
Posted by CG Bob on Saturday, June 17, 2006 7:46 PM

There is a formula for calculating the weight of a model boat or ship.  You need to know the displacement (weight) of the full size vessel.  You cannot use the Registered or Net tonnage, as they are a measure of volume - not weight.  If you know the full size vessels displacement in tons, multiply by 2240 (pounds in a long ton).  Divide that number by the cube of the scale. I plan on building a model of the USCGC VIGOROUS, a 210-foot Medium Endurance Cutter, in 1/48 scale.  The ship displaces 1000 tons.  Using the formula (Tons Displacement x 2240)/scale cubed=model weight in pounds, I get the following result: (1000 x 2240)/110592= 20.3 pounds. 

Are there weights or whatever that I put in the hull to balance it out? You can buy weights at the hobby shop, they're usually two strips in a pack.  The strips usually total 6 ounces, with 1/4 ounce segments marked.

What keeps the boat from tipping over all the time?  The center of buoyancy has to above the center of gravity.  Keep as much weight as possible low in the boat - motor, batteries, radio gear, lead weight.

If you've never scratch built a r/c boat, I recommend the Midwest Lobsterboat as a good first kit.  It's 30 inches long and has a recommended prop and motor set up.  A two channel radio on a surface frequency is required, get an electronic speed control.  The recommended motor is a stock 540/550 size brushed motor.  There are several suppliers that can provide after market props for this boat. IIRC the shaft has a M3 metric thread for the prop.

You might also want to check the following web sites. Scale Shipmodelers Association of North America ; RCGroups.com ; and R/C Boat Modeler .

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, June 17, 2006 9:50 PM
Thank you very much CG Bob. This info is useful.


Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Derry, New Hampshire, USA
Posted by rcboater on Sunday, June 18, 2006 9:33 PM
It isn't really as hard as you might think, if you keep some general guidelines in mind:

A model with the same proportions as a full scale vessel wil probably float OK, if you keep some general rules in mind:

Lighter is always better.  Consider two hulls, of a simple boxy barge shape- one carved from a solid block, not hollowed out, and the other built of thin sheets of wood glued up into hull.   The solid wood block will float, but just barely- most of the wood will be below the water line.  The empty box hull will float almost on top of the water. 

A lighter hull can have more weight (in the form of batteries, motors, etc.) added to it. 

Also of critical importance is the location of the weight in the hull.  The lower in the hull, the better.  This is why you kneel in a canoe instead of standing up-- the canoe is much more stable when your weight is lower in the hull. A light weight hull will often need ballast to get it to float at the scale aterline-- ballast is usually in the form of batteries or lead weight in the bottom of the hull, whihc is good for stability.

Long narrow hulls are less stable than shorter, wider hulls-- this is why a canoe is more "tippy" than rowboat of the same length-- the rowboat is 3 or 4 ties wider than the canoe.

There are some good books out there on the basics of RC boats- do a web search or check out your local library. 




Webmaster, Marine Modelers Club of New England

www.marinemodelers.org

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, June 19, 2006 5:04 PM

Go see if your local library has Chappell's book on American Small Craft, or his book on Boats; both will get slightly (tediously, occasionally) technical; but the information on the whys & wherefores is basic, and sound.  I'm drawing a bit of blank on the other tome I was jsut thinking of that gives soem of the basic fundamentals of bouyancy, stability, and design (I hate not quite remembering things).  Now, acopy of Knight's Modern Seamanship, or the Bluejacket's Manual, especialy from the 40s or 50s might be handily available from your local hal-price or used book vendor.  Each discusses some the technical issues you are looking for.

Now, the classic (at least model-form) lobster boat is a "flat iron", "V" bottom form.  The "ftat iren" name comes from the plan view looking like an old-fashioned flat iron.  The hull bottom forms a variable taper "v" shape with a hard chine where the hull side meets the hull bottom proper. 

Now, "floats like it's supposed to," is a bit of a dance.  Salt water weighs (displaces) a bit more than 62 pounds per cubic foot; fresh water is right about 65#/cf.  If we had a box of 1 x 1 x 3, and submerged half of it in water, it would displace 0.5 x 1 x 3, or 1.5 cubic feet, around 90-96# depending on water type.  If the box only weighs, say 1 pound, it would take another 90# to get it to float at it's 6" "wateline."  If the box weighs 20#, it takes less to get it down to that waterline.   Alternately, the 20 pound box would "draw" only 2-3". 

If we "know" from out prototype what the expected draft is, we can calculate the displacement.  Foe flat iron hull, that's going to be somewhere around 0.48 to 0.55 of the lwl x wlb x d.  If we use 1 x 3 x 0.12' is 0.36cf, x 0.5 is 0.18 x 60# is about 10#.  Weigh your model, if it's 8.5#, you'd need 1.5# to balast it "right."  Now, in practice, lighter can be better in RC.  And weight distribution is often more critical than weight for displacement (that motorcyle battery might wind up too far forward to keep the prop in the water, which will limit performance no end).

Now, I used 'dance' up there to start, and on purpose.  Because if we lighten the hull, as pointed out in another post, we "gain" displacement.  If we have heavy items in the hull, we "lose" some too.  Take from Peter, give to Paul and vice versa.  Additionally, there's more than two dimensions at play.  Ideally, we want the CB (Center of Bouyancy) to be under the CG (center of gravity).  Pitch and roll prevent that from being static conditions.  Certain hull configurations cause the CB to effectively "move" with heel (and pitch) in a way that creates a moment arm "back" to the CG.  Where that moment arm "connects" to the CG is called the metacenter (MC, usually on plans). 

From the hull section/body plan, this is simple, wide and low works nicely--and gives an ample MC height.  Except, remember, the MC exists longitudinally, too.  That's why many capital ships become very fine fore and aft in hull form while being quite beamy--they need to to decrease fore and aft pitch forces (lest one have a "bucking" gun platform).  Back to take one from here, add one there.

So, sure, a person can whittle out a flat iron shape that will make into a fine lobstah baht, can I tell you what rise to give the floors up to the chines?  Nope, not without a lot more info.  Should a person add flim or flam to the frames above the floors?  Dunno, H I Chappell goes into some detail on the virtues of one over the other.  Strait frames seem much easier to-scale aft of midships, but you have to have some flare in the forward frames, or it just won't look right (or, it might just look like some home built boats the down'easters actually use <g>).

The Midwest kit makes for a better "jumping" off place in many ways.  Not a bad idea, in my book to get a smaller, static version, and buid that up first, to get a feel for the shape of it, too.  But, that's me, others differ.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, June 19, 2006 6:01 PM
CapnMac -
Thank you very much fo the info - your and all the post are helping me gain a footing in which way to go.

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 4:42 PM

 Donnie wrote:
Thank you very much fo the info

No sweat.  Grew up with Knight's and Bowditch & The Bluejacket's Manual around the house.  Along with Principals of Naval Design, Hull mechanics, Damage Control Fundamentals, and the like (third generation Navy house can be like that <g>).

While in college, I found a treasure trove of Chappelle in the old CE library, as well as in the main consoildated library.  "Naval" Architecture was a bit of a welcome break from studying the "building" kind of architecture, too.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:52 AM

I haven't seen that particular Midwest kit, but everything I've seen from that manufacturer has been pretty good.  The only exceptions:  some Midwest kits are made of balsa wood, which is just about the worst material on the planet for building scale ship models.  I can't imagine that the lobster boat is in that category.

For the sake of completeness, it may be worth noting that Bluejacket (www.bluejacketinc.com) makes no fewer than five Maine lobster boat kits.  The biggest, with a length of 33", has a fiberglass hull and is specifically designed for RC.  There are two wood-hulled options, a pretty sophisticated one (complete with lobster traps, buoys, bait tank, and lobster storage box) that's 21 1/2" long (surely big enough for a small RC rig, though the company doesn't promote it as such) and a rather simplified beginner version with a length of 12".  Then there's one on HO (1/87) scale, for model railroaders.  This one's a waterline model with a cast resin hull.  Finally, there's a "toy boat" kit designed for kids, with pre-shaped wood parts that are ready to be glued together and painted; length 4 1/2".

I haven't seen any of those kits in the flesh either, but I'm confident that they're all excellent.  The Bluejacket folks know what they're doing - and they're honest-to-goodness Down Easters.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Friday, June 23, 2006 1:14 AM
Well,
I went ahead and ordered the Midwest Boothbay Lobster Boat (30")
I will be setting this to the side for a while, so I can focus on the Sultana Project.
I found this link if anyone is interested as well.
http://www.rktman.com/rlh/boothbay/review/review.html
Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

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