Another kit question - Pyro Santa Catarina do Monte Sinai

Over at Modelwarships.com there's one built by Paul Helfrich in the Gallery:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/sail/santacatarina-ph/ph-index.html

Actually, seeing it was the main reason for me to try and get one as well; the kit has the typical Pyro sail+spar ensembles which look awful, but then you can simply cut the offending sails away.

I'm far from being knowledgeable on early 16th century ships, but to me the hull doesn't look bad; in fact, to me it looks better than the Revell San Gabriel, which is most probably just the result of my ignorance (one has to take into account that both ships were of a different type, the San Gabriel being a nao if I remember correctly). I'm not so sure about the rigging, though, but that could probably be replaced fairly easily.

I've never seen the inside of the box.  I remember the kit as one of several (others included the Sovereign of the Seas, the Joseph Conrad, and the St. Louis) that appeared in the very late seventies or thereabouts, shortly before Pyro went out of business.  My recollection is that they were rather pleasant, medium-sized kits (about 18" long), with reasonable overall shapes but not a great deal of detail.  I think they had vac-formed plastic "sails," but I'm not sure about that.  (If the "sails" were injection-molded, that would be a major mark against them.)  That Santa Catarina  was a Portuguese carrack - an important type in the development of the ship.  If your expectations regarding detail aren't too high, it might make an interesting, worthwhile project.

Addendum:  jwintjes and I apparently were typing at the same time.  He notes that the kit's sails are in fact injection-molded.  Slicing them off the yards might or might not be an easy task, but in a ship of that period scratchbuilding yards from wood wouldn't be too difficult.  A fifteenth- or sixteenth-century yards was, in essence, a round, tapered piece of wood, with little if anything in the way of ironwork or other details.  And the number of yards on a ship like that would be fairly low.

It is quite interesting that the more we talk about plastic sailing ship models, the more obscure examples seem to turn up - does anyone know whether it has ever been attempted to do something like a census of all the plastic sailing ship models out there? It might be a worthwhile undertaking if only for nostalgia's sake.

Jorit

Thanks for the info! If it's a late 70s kit then it hopefully won't be too bad detail-wise. The small 6-inch Pyro kits (dating back to the 60s I think) are quite sharply-moulded and detailed even if they frequently are seriously lacking in accuracy.

Looking at the modelwarships.com photos it's obvious to me now that the vessel is a carrack (hull shape looks much like the Revell Santa Maria), from the very small photo of the box art (which may well not be totally accurate to the kit parts) on the eBay listing it looked more like a galleon.
This is the first kit I've seen of a sailing warship of this type, it makes an interesting comparison to later galleons and ships-of-the-line.
How accurate are the hull dimensions of the kit? It looks rather top-heavy to me, especially considering that all the guns appear to be mounted above the deck line.

jwintjes wrote:

It is quite interesting that the more we talk about plastic sailing ship models, the more obscure examples seem to turn up - does anyone know whether it has ever been attempted to do something like a census of all the plastic sailing ship models out there? It might be a worthwhile undertaking if only for nostalgia's sake. Jorit

http://www.quuxuum.org/rajens_list/rajen.html lists virtually every injection-moulded ship kit ever produced, and quite a few resin ones too. I find this list absolutely invaluable, both for finding what's out there and for identifying/evaluating obscure kits that I spot on eBay. (Not much on the Santa Catarina though, other than the hull length, which is why I posted the request for info)

There's quite a number of kits not on the list (quite a few Heller sailing ships for example), and many of the kits have little or no information other than name, manufacturer and subject, but it's still -very- handy. It would be fairly easy to sift through it and compile a list of sailing ship kits.

As I've probably mentioned before, my main ship modelling interest is 20th and late 19th century warships in 1/250 to 1/72 scale, an area which (apart from 1/72 torpedo boats and possibly submarines) is currently as badly neglected by manufacturers as sailing ships. Most kits in this category are old, clunky 1960s box-scale mouldings which require a lot of work to produce a decent model (again, much like most plastic sailing ships), but despite this, many of them fetch high prices on eBay (e.g the Lindberg 1/125 Admirable-class minesweeper), proving apparently that there -is- a demand for kits in this scale range. I've found many kits in this category listed on the above page which I otherwise would not have known existed!

If anyone's interested, here's a photo of the hull: (not assembled by me, it was bought as a part-built kit)



Based on the size of the guns, doors/hatches, etc., the scale appears to be around 1/200.
Is the hull shape accurate? As I mentioned before, it looks rather top-heavy; if it is accurate, it doesn't surprise me that the similarly-designed Mary Rose capsized and sank!

I also have a couple of questions about the armament. The box art and instructions indicate that the cannons are brass/bronze, but they look rather like early wrought-iron "bound" guns (I'm hardly an expert on early artillery, to say the least, but this is what they look like to me).
Here's a photo of some of the guns:

The cannons and swivel guns in the Revell Santa Maria kit are very similar in appearance.

Secondly, I have read that early warships of this type often had smaller swivel guns mounted in the mast tops; is this correct?

(Posted seperately for clarity)
Another interesting thing about this kit is that it's an original Pyro boxing, and actually lists all the Pyro ship kits on the box side, including the price range! This may be of interest to any collectors or fans of these old kits. Here's the list:

60c Historic Ships:
Mayflower, Barbary Pirate, USS Constitution, Santa Maria, Golden Hind, Half Moon, Bonhomme Richard, War Brig, HMS Victory, Flying Cloud, Nina, Pinta, French Galley, Venetian Carrack

$1.00 Historic Ships:
Cutty Sark, Chas W. Morgan, Staten Jacht, HMS Bounty, HMS Ark Royal, Skip Jack, Persian Gulf Trader, Burma River Pirate, Polynesian Outrigger, USS Constellation, British Bomb Ketch, Chinese War Junk, Elsie Gloucester Fisherman, Racing Yawl, British Man o'War

£3.00 Famous Ships
Fishing Schooner, American Cup Racer, Portuguese Man o'War, French Man o'War, British Man o'War, Nantucket Lightship, Dutch Man o'War, Russian Fishing Trawler, Diesel Tug Boat, Japanese Fishing Boat, Independence War Schooner, Civil War Blockade Runner

Miscellaneous Ships
Robert E. Lee, Monitor & Merrimac

It's surprising what a large range Pyro had at this time! Many of these kits seem to have vanished without trace, but a number of the $1 and $3 range have recently re-surfaced in Lindberg boxes.
There are actually quite a few Pyro ships not on this list, such as the Spanish Galleon and Gota Lejon (Swedish ship); presumably these weren't in production at the time the Santa Catarina was released.

Anyone know the answer to my question about the cannons? Alternatively, is there a website anywhere with info on the early development of naval guns (already tried Wikipedia)?

Hello,

A google search turned up a few references to the ship. Here's a link to a drawing of her:

http://www.kotiposti.net/felipe/Pictures/Santa_Catarina_do_monte__Sinai/santa_catarina_do_monte_sinai_1520.jpg

The model does appear to be a bit top heavy to me, though the drawing does make it so as well. I know that warships from those days built up their forecastles, quarters, and poops to provide "higher ground" for the soldiers to fight their battles from, but that such designs compromised the ships' seaworthiness.

Another link - to the portuguese marine museum: http://museu.marinha.pt/Museu/Site/PT/Exposicoes/ColeccoesOnline/Arte.Pintura.Pintura+a+%C3%93leo.htm

shows a painting of the ship - see the bottom of the page.

Jose Gonzales

There is, of course, scarcely any reliable information about the design and proportions of ships from that period.  I'm inclined, though, to agree with the above assessments of the kit's overall shape:  it looks like a slightly distorted, almost caricatured representation of a real carrack.

Regarding the guns - I think EPinniger is on target:  they look like the old-fashioned "bound iron" style.  I'd be inclined to paint them black.

In general, it looks to me like this kit was designed by people who almost knew enough about the subject to design a reconstruction of a fifteenth-century carrack - but not quite.  That level of accuracy was fairly typical of Pyro at the time.  The company's ship model kits did not improves steadily over the decades.  The first ones (such as the Gertrude L. Thebaud and Roger B. Taney - later to reappear as the "American Cup Racer" (gag) and "Independence War Schooner") were basically sound, if simple, kits.  (They were, in fact, based on the plans and parts of solid-hull wood kits from Marine Models and Model Shipways.  Thirty years later, the two fine gentlemen who founded the latter firm were still talking about "Pirate Plastics.")  This later generation (which also included the Sovereign of the Seas and St. Louis) had a completely different character.  These kits give the impression of having been designed with an eye toward combining lavish decoration with low price - and dubious understanding of the prototypes.

Many thanks for the advice!
It looks to me like the Pyro kit was based on the first picture jgonzales posted. (The box art is almost identical.) Contemporary paintings are not often known for their proportional accuracy!

Since the guns in the Revell Santa Maria kit are very similar in appearance I assume these are also the bound iron type. I'm intending to build this kit as a generic 15th-century armed merchant carrack, hence will be leaving off the rather dubious-looking shields on the side as well as any other excessive ornamentation. Since the kit is presumably a generic representation of a carrack anyway (as nobody knows what the real Santa Maria looked like) I probably won't need to do many other modifications.

I just bought one from a store in the St. Louis region that is from "The Lindbergh Line" company.  Trying to find out some information concerning the type of wood it would have been made of.  It was constructed in India so just wondering what kind of wood  would have been used from that region.

I don't have any specific information, but my guess would be teak for the structural parts and planking and rosewood for the decorative carvings.

Teak is a nice, orange-gold brown when new; as it ages (unless it's oiled or varnished) it turns silvery- grey. Rosewood varies from very dark brown to maroon.