Tamiya 1/350 Bismarck kit differences 78001 and 78013

Yann Solo wrote:

Absolutely, Dragon proved that it is possible to supply a very well detailed kit for a reasonable price.  Other manufacturers should take exemple. Be carefull espins1, if you have to mortgage your house for a kit, it would mean it's time to stop.

heh heh, at the rate I'm going, I may have to re-fi to afford this expensive hobby! 

I keep referring to one of my friends that works at my LHS as my "dealer".  Yes, I'm addicted to modelling. 

Absolutely, Dragon proved that it is possible to supply a very well detailed kit for a reasonable price.  Other manufacturers should take exemple.

Be carefull espins1, if you have to mortgage your house for a kit, it would mean it's time to stop.

I know what you mean Yann Solo.  The latest armored offerings from say Dragon are absolutely phenominal.  They include so much detail, photo-etch parts, rubber road wheals seperate from the rims, turned aluminum barrels.  I'd like to see the same "evolution" with the ship kits.  The Tamiya 1/350 Bismarck is a great kit, but when you're looking at that scale, it almost seems featureless without adding photo etch.  I'm still in a bit of shock that I spent $166 on the PE parts, 3 times what I paid for the actual kit.  But I did that because I envision this Bismarck being a centerpiece in my collection that I'd like to mount on the wall in a custome display shelf. 

It would be nice though if the ships got up to the same level of detail, value and add ons that the Dragon Armor kits have evolved to.

Yann Solo - I can easily understand why a modeler in this day and age would get frustrated by the variety - and cost - of aftermarket parts.  I firmly believe that the 1990s and 2000s are going to be regarded some day as a golden age of scale modeling.  There is more stuff available now to help kit builders produce outstanding miniatures than there's ever been before.  And the quality of it is, for old fuddes like me who've been around since the beginning of plastic modeling, almost unbelievable.  (I can remember without difficulty the days when good magazines and books were assuring us that radar screens were "unmodelable" on 1/350 or 1/700 scale, and guardrails were considered the exclusive preserve of veteran scratchbuilders with machine shops.) 

All this becomes counter-productive, though, if it has the effect of intimidating the would-be modeler.  Nobody suggests for one minute that a modeler "has" to buy three aftermarket sets - or one aftermarket set - to build a 1/350 Bismarck.  Those things are tempting, but they're not essential.  The truth of the matter is that the standards of detail and accuracy in the ship kits themselves have also been going up recently.  (Those Tamiya 1/350 battleships are almost thirty years old now; a number of other companies have, at least in some respects, beaten them.  But the Tamiya kits still hold up remarkably well.)  A model built out of the box from one of those kits can be a thing of great beauty, and something to make its builder proud. 

My suggestion is:  take stock carefully of what you want to build, what you want the finished product to look like, how much time you want to spend on it, and what your budget is.  I don't think anybody in this Forum has any intention of trying to force people to spend vast sums of money on their models, or scare them away from the hobby altogether.  It's going to be your model.  The materials are out there to help you complete it to a variety of standards, but all the decisions are up to you.

Edited:  at first there appeared to be an issue with my order from Great Models.  I sent an e-mail and they got back to me right away, all my goodies are in stock (3 PE sets for the Tamiya 1/350 Bismarck, and 2 PE sets for the 1/600 Airfix Bismarck).  My order will be shipped Monday. 

You're well on your way, my friend. When you do start your build, be sure to post some in-progress pics to let us know how you are coming along. Having built a few 1/350, and a couple of 1/700 ships with PE before, I may be able to help you should you get hung up.You shouldn't have a problem though, especially with the basic kit construction. As far as the PE application is concerned, there are going to be better days than others. As a model builder, you must know that all sessions at the workbench are not necessarily created equal. Some days, you just won't have "it". You'll have the time. You'll have the ambition. But you just won't have "it". ("It" being that state of nervana when your orbit is right and all is right with the world and your fingers seem to do the right thing.) But on other days you will have "it" and you'll be a PE bendin' fool with all the precision of a fine watch. The trick is, to recognize the good days and get as much done as you can, and to also recognize the bad days when you would be best served to just walk away from the workbench before you ruin all that nice PE. Take it from someone who had to buy another PE set because of that during my first experience with handling PE.  It's harder to walk away than you think, so be sure to try real hard. 

Good luck !

Ted

I just placed my order for the White Ensign Models PE sets:

3529 Busmarck Ultimate Detail Set

3565 Bismarck Deck Plate

3566 Kriegsmarine Light AA Weapons

That stuff is expensive!!!!    But will be worth it!

I ended up ordering them from Great Models as ordering direct from WEM would have been a bit more expensive, with them being in the UK and me being in the western US.

oz1998 wrote:

espins1 wrote: I've decided to get all 3 sets of the WEM photoecth so now it's time to shop around and find the best deal.  I've seen some pretty different ranges in the price for each of these.  Hi Scott ! Congrats on the safe arrival of your Bismarck. Also glad to see you are going with all three WEM photoetch sets. You won't be disappointed. I know that Squadron.com carries WEM products, you could check them out. I usually just order direct from WEM. John and Carolyn Snyder who run WEM are the best. I don't know what you've decided on as far as paint goes, but if you write to John, (johnsnyder@onetel.com) he will give you the colors you will need to paint her with from their Colourcoats paint line. It's excellent paint, and all that I use on my warships. I don't know if the WEM set has the PE cable reels included, but you are definitly going to want to replace the plastic ones in the kit. If they are not on the WEM set, then you are going to need the Assorted Cable Reels set from Gold Metal Models. #350-23. (http://www.goldmm.com/ships/gms3ordr.htm Have you decided to go with the Airfix 1/600 Bismarck first as practice like you said earlier ? Or are you going to dive right into this beast ? Ted

Thanks for the info on the WEM sets.  I will replace the cable reels, so if they're not included on the WEM set, I'll order the other set as well.

I was looking over the Airfix kit as I wanted to use it for practice, but it seems like it's going to be a pain.  I dry fitted the two hull halves and all I can say is "Yikes! "  I think I'll still try to build it, if for no other reason than to map out a build order for the Tamiya kit, and to learn the hard way what needs to be painted first etc.  Better to learn those lessons on the Airfix kit, than on the Tamiya.  Know what I mean? 

espins1 wrote:

I've decided to get all 3 sets of the WEM photoecth so now it's time to shop around and find the best deal.  I've seen some pretty different ranges in the price for each of these.

Hi Scott !

Congrats on the safe arrival of your Bismarck. Also glad to see you are going with all three WEM photoetch sets. You won't be disappointed. I know that Squadron.com carries WEM products, you could check them out. I usually just order direct from WEM. John and Carolyn Snyder who run WEM are the best. I don't know what you've decided on as far as paint goes, but if you write to John, (johnsnyder@onetel.com) he will give you the colors you will need to paint her with from their Colourcoats paint line. It's excellent paint, and all that I use on my warships.

I don't know if the WEM set has the PE cable reels included, but you are definitly going to want to replace the plastic ones in the kit. If they are not on the WEM set, then you are going to need the Assorted Cable Reels set from Gold Metal Models. #350-23. (http://www.goldmm.com/ships/gms3ordr.htm

Have you decided to go with the Airfix 1/600 Bismarck first as practice like you said earlier ? Or are you going to dive right into this beast ?

Ted

Yann Solo wrote:

espins1 wrote: ... and hopefully it will be good enough to display proudly on a custom shelf on the wall.  I wouldn't worry too much about that espin1, your modeling skills are too good to screw it up! BTW, both versions are available at luckymodel.com.  They have both Bismarck, Tirpitz and New Jersey old and new versions with a 20$ difference for each kit.  Isn't weird?

Thanks for the vote of confidence! 

I also wonder how they can justify a price difference between old and new, if there is no difference in the actual kit.  I wish there was a way I could compare 78001 and 78013 (old and new Bismarck) just so I can be sure there is no difference. 

I've decided to get all 3 sets of the WEM photoecth so now it's time to shop around and find the best deal.  I've seen some pretty different ranges in the price for each of these. 

espins1 wrote:

... and hopefully it will be good enough to display proudly on a custom shelf on the wall.

I wouldn't worry too much about that espin1, your modeling skills are too good to screw it up!

BTW, both versions are available at luckymodel.com.  They have both Bismarck, Tirpitz and New Jersey old and new versions with a 20$ difference for each kit.  Isn't weird?

I'll go on record now saying that the Tamiya 1/350 Bismarck is a very nice kit.  The box art is beautiful!  I may even frame it and hang it on the wall in my den above the model when it's done. 

The photo-etch add ons are a must however, a kit in this scale needs all the detail that they provide, especially with the railings, fixtures etc.  I can tell already this is going to be one of those long projects, but will be a tremendous learning experience and hopefully it will be good enough to display proudly on a custom shelf on the wall. 

jtilley wrote:

espins1 - I hear the British Enigma decoders have penetrated the UPS tracking system.  You'd best get home NOW, lest some 1/350 Swordfish get there first.

I've unleashed another German secret weapon.... my wife is already on her way home.  In fact, she should be putting it in the house out of harms way at this very moment!  muwahahahaaaa!   How ironic that the Italian is bailing out the German this time. 

Now... where to find some allied shiping for some target practice.....

Cool, thanks for the info.  I was checking out that review and trying to figure out what was what on the WEM website.  So, if I really wanted to go all out I'd need sets 3529, 3566 and 3565.  Time to start accumulating reference material while I anxiously await the arrival of the kit.

Yes, I know, I need therapy. 

See the review of the WEM detail set at SteelNavy

http://www.steelnavy.com/WEM350BismarckSet.htm

Like most of Steve Backer's reviews there is an overall picture of the fret, then upclose pictures of the individual parts.   Here is fret A.

and here is fret B.

WEM's directions are good,  they show you how to fold many of the pieces, but like most aftermarket there is an arrow which says put it there - not x inches from the breakwater.   Additional references may be necessary.

The basic Bismarck set does not include the light flak weapons.  These are available on fret 3566.

This is an additional set which includes decks for the Bismarck.  Item 3565

I was checking out the PE sets on the White Ensign Models website, they seem really nice.  How good are the instructions for those?  Do they show how to put it all together?  Where to place each part?    Specifically I'm looking at set WEM 3529.  Anyone have any experience with this set?  Does it include all the goodies, deck plates etc?  Any info would be most appreciated. 

Edit.  ok, from what I can gather, WEM has two PE sets specifically for the 1/350 Bismarck, and one additional set for Kriegsmarine AA guns?  Am I understanding that correctly?

Very sound advice Ted.    I'll get a PE set for the airfix kit for the practice, which I know I'll need!    I'll then have a much better idea what my capabilities and limitations are. 

My Tamiya Bismarck should arrive towards the end of this week.  I'll give it a good looking over, then start researching what I'd like to enhance or upgrade. 

Thanks for the info! 

Hi Scott,

Yeah, that's a great job huh ? Amazing. That's a good plan to do the old Airfix Bismarck first. White Ensign Models has a PE set for that Bismarck as well: WEM 1/600 "Ultimate" Kriegsmarine Set 1 - The Battleships

That set will outfit the Airfix Bismarck, giving you some practice on the PE as well. I built the Tamiya Bismarck in my early 20's some 25 years ago. I picked up another Tamiya Bismarck kit to some day do an "Uber" Bismarck like Ed's. My first Bismarck came out alright for it's day, but with today's PE and aftermarket stuff, my next Bismarck should make my first one look like a toy boat. I even wrote to Ed asking him how he did it and where he got the wood. He was good enough to respond telling me all but the largest molded on deck features need to be cut off and reapplied after the deck is planked. That may be a little hairy, but do-able. If you want the web site for the deck lumber, let me know and I'll post it. Also, if you really want to get nuts with this kit, you should get the brass barrel set from Steve Nuttal.

Don't worry about taking on more than you can chew. You'll get a better idea of your limits when you do the Airfix Bismarck, and then just work within those guidlines for the Tamiya Bismarck. The Tamiya Bismarck is a great kit and goes together real well. You'll be more than satisfied.

Ted

oz1998 wrote:

espins1 wrote: I've seen several different PE sets for this kit and am having a hard time deciding which one/ones to get.  decisions decisions...... I plan on going with White Ensign Models PE sets, all three of them available for this kit for my Bismarck. I also plan on planking the deck. I was inspired by a Bismarck model built by Ed Keegan who did all of those things. Check it out: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/dkm/bismarck-350-ek/ek-index.html Ted

  Ed Keegan's work is amazing!  That Bismarck he made is gorgeous!  And he painstakingly made a real wooden deck! 

This will be my first attempt at a ship since I built a Bismarck back in my teens.... many, many years ago.  I think I'll built my old Airfix Bismarck first, just go get my ship building techniques a dry run.  I really want to go all out on the Tamiya kit as far as the PE is concerned, which will be a first for me.  I hope I'm not taking on more than I can chew. 

espins1 wrote:

I've seen several different PE sets for this kit and am having a hard time deciding which one/ones to get.  decisions decisions......

I plan on going with White Ensign Models PE sets, all three of them available for this kit for my Bismarck. I also plan on planking the deck. I was inspired by a Bismarck model built by Ed Keegan who did all of those things. Check it out:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/dkm/bismarck-350-ek/ek-index.html

Ted

Don't know if you have seen the White Ensign photo etched deck plates for the superstructure?

The superstruture decks have been molded deviod of detail & this cures it. White Ensign Models also do what looks to be a very thorough PE sheet, but it isn't cheap.

Am thinking of combining the WEM deck sheet with the cheaper Toms Modelworlks sheet. Have just got the Toms sheet for the Trumpeter Hood & am impressed with it.