Seawolf Diorama

Stumbled onto this site using an old thread as a back door eh! Welcome!   Try not to be so sneeky next time  

                                                                                    

Welcome, Mark! 

I'm new to this site & stumbled onto it whilst looking for tips on modeling realistic water.

I'm building the Academy 1/350 Bismark and wanted it depicted at full battle speed, whilst under attack.

I would like to thank you very much (EdGrune) for your advise over these two pages.

Up till now it's seemed to be a well kept secret, but having found and joined this forum I'm looking forward to a long & much improved hobby.

Many Thanks

Rob,

     It appears that you have never "played" with any of the materials that have been suggested for your project. I will only offer this.....Practice, Practice,Practice! Get the materials you will be using, and play with them. Create the various water effects you will need, and find out what works, and what doesn't. Once you start applying the water effects to the sub, you are comitted (and so is the kit) to whatever end you reach, for better or worse. Prof. Tilley has often said, "the fingers will learn", but the eye, and the mind must also learn. You have to "know" what the water is supposed to look like, then, you must learn how to make the materials replicate that "look". I hope you find the learning process as enjoyable as the building process. Best of luck in both, I think we'll all be waiting for the finished product.

Sounds like its going to be a great dio, keep going

Will

And, to give you the ongoing inspiration of surfacing subs...  This one I just can't forget:

http://finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/1/492467/ShowPost.aspx#492467

 

I will likely want to see how you accomplish your water if you have good results, of course. I have a coast guard lifeboat that will be doing some rough water when I get it going, and have been perusing a lot of different water dios to see what will work best for a 1/48 scale model setting with very rough waves and the boat plowing and rolling through.

This looks like it'll be a great diorama! Keep us posted on your progress :)

Wonder if Japanese dioramas typically depict the USA being worsted by the IJN?

This is one very lucky Akiizuki class, is it not?

 

 

The shell splash in this appears to have been done with polyfil or white poly yarn and acrylic blending medium.

This is in 1:700 scale and was one of the winning models showcased at the 2006 PitRoad competition.

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~pitroad/contest/2006/2006_result.html

 

Took some pics (finaly)





Im not sure wheather to add the antena/periscope now of after test fitting it to the base.

EDIT (dont know why the pictures are so blury click for real size and they look fine)

Rob J wrote:

just to make sure I understand you, I should put the poly fill in place, then coat it with acrylic gel medium? I’m still not entirely sure what to do after that… “Build several thin wash coats of color that imbed the pollyfil instead of just leaving the pollyfil on the surface (because it then looks unfinished - like pollyfil on a blue painted surface).”   I don’t want to sound like an idiot but could you explain how to make the poly fill look realistic in a bit more detail? And thanks a million for helping me with this, without your help I would be totaly lost.

Yes,  if you just leave the pollyfil on the surface, it looks like some fuzzy stuff sitting on the surface of a painted board.   You will need to imbed some of the pollyfil into the surface paint to make it look like it is a splash out of the water.    You also do not want it to look like it is a white blotch.  You want the color of the water to blend into the column of polyyfil and some of the white o fthe pollyfil to blend into the water.

Note: the measurements of materials are approximations for purposes of explanation.  Experiment a bit to see how they behave on your specific application.  I am only going to deal with two colors.   I often deal with multiple colors (greens and blues) when I make a water base.

Materials:  Baseboard,  pollyfil,  acrylic gloss blending medium, Paynes Gray acrylic tube paint,  white acrylic tube paint, Future floor polish

1)  Paint the baseboard Paynes Gray (full strength) allow to dry

2)  Figure where model will be placed and where the pollyfil splashes will go.   Roughly place pollyfil & shape as desired..

3)  Mix a 2-inch dollop of blending medium with a pea-sized spot of Paynes Gray.   Paint the lower 1/3 of the pollyfil with this.   Get it into the column of pollyfil for some structural strength.  Blend it onto the water surface.   It will be a glue which will attach the pollyfil to the board and make some color.    Allow to dry.

4)  Mix a 2-inch dollop of blending medium with a half-pea sized spot of Paynes Gray.  Paint the lower 2/3 of the column of pollyfil.   Again blend it into the water surface.  Allow to dry.

5)  Mix a 2-inch dollop of blending medium with a half-pea sized spot of white (white is strong so it doesnt take much).  Apply it to the base around the bottom of the column of pollyfil 1/2 to 3/4 inch around the column.   Spread some up into the column.  Allow to dry

6)  Use some full strength blending medium on the top of the pollyfil column.    Apply some additional loose frothy splashes of pollyfil to the column as necessary cementing them in place with the blending medium.

7)  Mix a 2 nch dollop of blending medium and a quarter pea sized spot of white.   Blend it an irregular inch to 1 1/2 inches from the pollyfil.  Allow to dry.

8)  Apply overall washes of blending medium with a small amount of color to level some of the water surface where it has built up from multiple applications of previous color washes.  Cement model in place with these acrylic washes

9)  Stipple full strength white on wave tops, around model and places on the pollyfil where appropriate

10) Apply Future floor wax for a wet look.   Future can also be colored with acrylic paint for additional color wash coats.

Hope this information helps.

Oh boy do I feel like a moron, I though you were talking about the spackle type stuff PolyFilla, I really should learn to read… Anyway I get what you’re saying about making the water falling from the hull with either clear plastic or the poly fill. I’m still not sure which to use though... I like the idea of the poly fill because it will be easy to place and tweak into place. The plastic (im not even sure what kind plastic to use) would require more cutting and sculpting to get into place. I will probably go with the poly fill but I want to try and make it look as real as possible, just to make sure I understand you, I should put the poly fill in place, then coat it with acrylic gel medium?

I’m still not entirely sure what to do after that…

“Build several thin wash coats of color that imbed the pollyfil instead of just leaving the pollyfil on the surface (because it then looks unfinished - like pollyfil on a blue painted surface).”
 

I don’t want to sound like an idiot but could you explain how to make the poly fill look realistic in a bit more detail?

And thanks a million for helping me with this, without your help I would be totaly lost.

Neutral to slight trailing edge up.    Bow planes function opposite from what you might be familiar with for elevators on an aircraft. 

I just realized I have no idea what position to put the dive planes in, level, up, down or retracted?

For the acrylic gel medium, go to the artist supply store or the art section of the craft store.  It will be in the same aisle as the acrylic tube paints.    A common brand name is Liquitex.  Acrylic medium comes in various thicknesses from gel to a thin blending medium.   It also comes in flat, satin, and gloss.

Skulpey clay will also be available in the craft store.

Pollyfil is pillow stuffing - another craft store item.  I believe that the term may be used in Europe as what we call spackle in the States.  Spackle is a plaster used to blend seams in drywall.    Spackle could be used, but takes longer to dry, cracks, and is more fragile.

Jeff's method uses just the acrylic paint and is good for flat seas with not much rolling action.

Rusty's method is good for applications where you will want to build more water.

1) Make the ship (without final details)

2) Make the water base & form to the ship.  (Bake it if using Skulpey)

3) Attach ship to base.   Use washes of various ocean blue colors in acrylic medium.   Ship will be permenantly attached to the base.  Build colors from dark to light.

4)  Armatures of clear plastic, plastic bag, or pollyfil support the froth.   This is your means of supporting the foamy water under the hull.

Ok, im still a bit away from needing to add water (ive just started to hack the hull to bits), but im still a bit confused, Jeff Herne's article uses that acrylic gel medium stuff and Rusty Whites is all about sculpting clay. I was also looking at what EdGrune wrote and I think I generaly get what your saying and I think Im going to use somthing like polyfil to create the armature and then my other problem is that my local hobby shop doesnt carry acrylic gel medium DOH!, does anyone know where I can order some online? So I should build the base out of clay or polyfill and then cover that with the acrylic gel right?

My other concern is the water falling off the bottom of the hull, its going to be almost soild white water but it needs to be kind of transparent and choppy if you know what I mean.

I'll post some pics as soon as i clean up the gouge i made in the hull :(

1)   Cut it proud of your intended line/angle using a hand saw then finish by sanding to the desired line using a belt sander (or some sand paper glued to a sheet of glass).   Progress through grits - coarse to fine.

2)  See articles on SteelNavy on making water

Jeff Herne's article http://www.steelnavy.com/water.htm

Rusty White's article http://www.steelnavy.com/Whitewater.htm   

Rusty will also sell you a CD which expands on the topic  http://www.flagshipmodels.com/flagship/HowTo_CDs.html

I think I'd start with Rusty's basic method of using Skulpey clay for the bulk of the water.   Build some armatures for the spray of white water using some clear plastic or sandwich bag cemented in place with acrylic clear gloss medium.   Stiple artists acrylic white paint on the clear armature to make the spray.  Pollyfil from the craft store may also be an option as the armature for the frothy water.    Coat with clear gloss acrylic medium.    Build several thin wash coats of color that imbed the pollyfil instead of just leaving the pollyfil on the surface (because it then looks unfinished - like pollyfil on a blue painted surface).  Dry brush/stipple the highlight with white.

For the clear water running off the upper hull surface,  brush apply the clear gloss medium.   When it begins to set up go back and add some more brush strokes. 

Overcoat everything with a final coat of Future for a wet look. 

Can't help you, but it sounds like it will be awesome.