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The Copperhead (Sultana conversion)

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  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
The Copperhead (Sultana conversion)
Posted by cthulhu77 on Sunday, July 23, 2006 9:57 PM

   Now, the others in the group build have been making a ton of headway, and all I've done is stick my nose in book after book...but, perusing "The Pirates" by Time/Life, I came across a particularly interesting sloop design that was heavily modified during the sailing era...so, to tackle the wooden hull with some chisels and paper seems to be the order of the day. Here's the original watercolour from the book:

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  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, July 23, 2006 10:14 PM

It appears to have the hull form of the classic "Bermuda sloop."  In fact I strongly suspect the graphic artist started by tracing the outline of one of the Bermuda sloop drawings in either Chapman's Architectura Navalis Mercatoria or Chapelle's The Search For Speed Under Sail.

I guess one could convert the Model Shipways Sultana to a single-masted sloop.  (When you're doing reconstructions of ships that nobody really knows anything about, there are no rules.)  A better starting point, though, might be the Model Shipways "Armed Virginia Sloop."  That's a plank-on-frame kit - quite a major project, but just the sort of vessel one might find under the command of a pirate in the early to mid-eighteenth century.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: The green shires of England
Posted by GeorgeW on Monday, July 24, 2006 2:40 AM

Is this a sloop or is it a cutter. It looks very similar to a naval or revenue cutter of the late eighteenth/ early nineteenth century. The main difference I understand between a sloop and a cutter was the bowsprit which was fixed in a sloop and  running in a cutter.

 Cutters were used by naval/revenue and smugglers alike and presumably pirates; it became necessary in England to restrict by law the length of the bowsprit on non revenue cutters to give the revenue an edge in their attempts to catch the ‘opposition’

 A noticeable feature of naval cutters is the unusually long bowsprits apparent even in the picture of the previous post. These vessels carried a lot of sail relative to their size.

 The ‘opposition’ were usually more than a match for the revenue as  smuggling attracted a better quality of seaman drawn by the high  profits to be made.

 Mamoli make a pof cutter kit 1:72 scale which sounds like the sort of  model you are looking for.

 I made and modified the model some years ago to represent a revenue cutter of this period..

 

A book in the ‘Anatomy of the ship series’ ‘The Naval Cutter Alert 1777’ by Peter Goodwin is an excellent reference source for such vessels.

 

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Monday, July 24, 2006 7:44 AM

Wonderful advice, and thanks to both of you!  It is a sloop, the same book has another plate of the naval sloop, and it is much more rakish...I see what you mean about the navy making them "leaner and meaner".

  This is going to be a conversion of the Sultana wooden ship, have to change scales of course, but I should be o.k. Since it is going to be a gift for some friends who are truly enamoured of pirates, the real Sultana wouldn't work out, especially since it didn't carry any heavy cannons. Any advice as I go along would be most appreciated.

 

           greg 

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, July 24, 2006 9:58 AM

The definitions of "sloop" and "cutter" are complicated - a real morass of confusing, antiquated word usage.  Anybody who claims to have a simple explanation of the subject hasn't read enough about it.

A good place to start such a discussion usually is the relevant volume in the Conway's History of the Ship series, in this case the volume titled The Line of Battle:  The Sailing Warship, 1650-1840.  Here are the definitions it offers:

cutter.  (1) Ship's boat, usually clinker-built (qv), seaworthy and handier under sail than oars. (2) Sharp lined fast-sailing coastal craft, oritinally clinker-built in the English Channel ports; carried a single-masted fore and aft rig of large area, and popular as smuggling craft, revenue cruiser and small warship.

sloop.  Originally a boat designation (see shallop), the term came to have two broad areas of meaning:   (1) In the Royal Navy it developed into a small cruiser, below the six Rates and commanded by a Master and Commander; it virtually became the seventh Rate, being applied to any vessel so commanded, such as the larger brigs and even fireships and bomb vessels when assigned cruising duties.  (2) As a rig it denoted a single-masted gaff rigged vessel with fixed bowsprit and jib headsails, and usually no square topsails.

The latter defiinition alludes to one source of confusion:  the fact that the same word was used on the one hand to define a vessel's rig, and on the other to define its function. 

I've seen many references to the idea that a cutter had a sliding bowsprit, whereas a sloop didn't.  And of course both cutters and sloops frequently had square sails.  (I don't think I've ever seen a picture of a British naval or revenue cutter that didn't.)  I think the terms were used pretty carelessly in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.  And that Anatomy of the Ship volume on the Alert mentions that, at one point in her career, she was officially reclassified from "cutter" to "sloop" because (drum roll, please) her commanding officer had been promoted from lieutenant to master and commander.

The United States government bastardized the word "cutter" even more brutally when, in 1794, the Congress, at the behest of Alexander Hamilton, the first Secretary of the Treasury, authorized the construction of thirteen cutters for the purspose of collecting the newly-authorized tariffs on imported goods.  All thirteen of the vessels in question turned out to be two-masted schooners.  But apparently, due to British practice, the words "revenue" and "cutter" had become inextricably connected.  The old U.S. Revenue Cutter Service's modern successor, the U.S. Coast Guard, still officially applies the word "cutter" to all vessels longer than a hundred feet.

 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Monday, July 24, 2006 10:44 AM

gesundheit!  That's a lot of information to digest...but, since this is going to be a pirate sloop, I won't worry too much about the formalities of what the exact nature of the ship is.

   I like the long spar, the look of the sails, and the ability to carry some cannon...haven't worked out the exact scale yet though, any ideas?

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posted by Russ39 on Monday, July 24, 2006 1:34 PM
If you are using the Sultana solid hull as your basis, then 3/16"=1' or maybe 1/8" =1' will be your best bets for scale.

If you choose 3/16"=1' (1/64 scale), then that's the same scale as the kit itself. The deck length is about 50 ft give or take. That is about as small as you will want to get on a pirate ship, yes? Can't have as large a crew and thus can't take as many prizes or as much loot.

If you go with 1/8"=1' (1/96 scale)  then then deck length will be about 75 ft or so. This would be a better size for a sloop rigged pirate ship, I would think. It would be close to the size of the privateers commissioned by Ben Franklin in France during the Revolution. Of course, at this scale, everything is much smaller.

Russ

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Monday, July 24, 2006 2:28 PM
Either 96th or shoot the pickle and go for 72nd...I agree about the size of the vessel.  Lots of shaving to do!
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  • Member since
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a Sultana conversion
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 28, 2006 9:59 PM

I want some help.  With the Sultana, yes, only not with the Sultana.  The issue: do you think the Sultana kit from Model Shipways that you are all working with can produce a museum ready model?  I expect at this point in your build you are very familiar with the kit.

 

I hope to build such a model, remodeling the Sultana kit as her contemporary vessel, the Liberty, the first warship of the American navy.  I’ll build my own hull from my estimate of her lines (underwater she derived from a St. Lawrence River galley built in the 1740s, while her upper works were designed to serve the social life of her builder, Col. Skenesborough).  I expect to build in plank on frame (maybe reshape the solid original hull?), but the plans, furnishings, and rigging supplies for Sultana might make a good start for my own model, I think.  Does the kit you’re working with, in terms of cordage, armament, and other equipment  scale well for the size of the model?

 

My model will not end in one of the world’s great museums, I expect, but it has a place.  The Skenesborough Museum (http://www.whitehallchamber.com/skenesborough_museum.htm) contains many memories of the early days at the head of Lake Champlain, but it has no detailed model of the most important ship in the history of the region, Benedict Arnold’s flagship Liberty, which began in 1775 as a small colonial schooner generally like Sultana.  I plan to donate my model to their collection after I finish her.

 

For more about the Liberty (aka Lady Katherine) and her story, you can look at  Dan Forth’s (that’s me) nautical novel Seizing the Forts on Lulu.com.  A download of the electronic (.pdf) version is free.  I am the author, and I know no better summary of this dimly known ship from 1775.

 


  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Monday, October 2, 2006 8:47 PM

Well, it has been an interesting road traveled on this one...as soon as I started, a whole flock of commissioned work came in (paintings, not models), and I had to get away from my wood bench for a while...so, can you believe I only made the jig today. Yep, talk about waaaaaaaaay behind!

I love using those 4 dollar pin forms to make the hull jigs:

 

 

They always come spot on to the hull!

http://www.ewaldbros.com
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