lindberg armed schooner "Sandpiper "

http://www.coastwisepacket.com/shenandoah.html Should take you to some of the information available on Shenandoah. She was built by Harvey Gamage, of South Bristol, Me.. The yard also built the schooner, Bill of Rights,and the schooner Harvey Gamage, as well as Pete Seeger's Clearwater, an 82' Hudson River Sloop. I had the pleasure of being able to get to South Bristol on regular visits, to watch the progress of Clearwater. I have polaroids of her from frames to maiden voyage, and the memory of watching as one of her seams, along the turn of the bilge, was caulked with oakum, and payed with pitch. Much of the work on her was done as of old, and the skills are getting harder to find, as low demand, and new technologies replace them.

  Aside, to Prof.tilley, Yaz was a Bridgehampton, N.Y. native,( I have family there ) When the Dodgers left Brooklyn, I became a red sox fan, and was overjoyed when they beat the Yankees in the series. These days find me a Cubs fan.

I'll second that!  I had a photo of Shenandoah on my fridge for years. My first offshore trip on a 'tall ship' was on the Californian. The Joe Lanes had to be the ultimate Baltimore Clippers! I have the Bluejacket Jefferson Davis in a prominent place in my studio.

The Baltimore Clippers had to be the most beautiful sailing vessels ever created. My two most vivid sailing memories are the original Pride of Baltimore sailing out of Monterey Bay in the early 1980's and the Californian putting up stuns'ls in the 1999 Master Mariner's regatta on San Francisco Bay.  (Third place was watching the Endeavour replica sail over the horizon, at sea, while on a transit up the California coast on a 1930's vintage topsail schooner).

If I remember the exquisite coastal schooner Shenandoah ( New England based in the 1980's) was a near clone of Joe Lane. Man what a beauty.

Just bringing this old thread back to the front.

As a side note: you can see Prof. Tilley's drawings of these vessels in Irving King's excellent book, "The Coast Guard under Sail" c 1989, Naval Institute Press.  Available on www.addall.com for $20-$50 

 

Privateering was declared illegal by the Declaration of Paris of 1856, but the United States government didn't sign it.  The Confederate States of America (obviously) didn't either.  The Confederacy did operate a modest privateering campaign against the Union during the Civil War, but it didn't contribute significantly to the outcome.  I'm not aware of any similar activities by the Union.  

Logically, the U.S. government probably refrained from issuing letters of marque during the Civil War because, technically, it wasn't a war.  The Constitution provides that the United States enters a state of war when Congress passes a declaration of war.  There was no declaration of war against the Confederacy, because the United States never recognized the Confederate States of America as a nation.  (Neither did any other country.)  In the official eyes of the U.S. government, what happened between 1861 and 1865 wasn't a war; it was the suppression of a rebellion.  A letter of marque was an official document authorizing a private citizen to capture merchant vessels flying the flag of a nation with which the issuing government was at war.  Since the U.S. wasn't at war with an enemy nation between 1861 and 1865, the Union government couldn't issue letters of marque.  That, at any rate, is my reading of the situation.

Lots of people don't seem to realize it, but officially the United States has only gone to war five times:  the War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Spanish-American War, World War I, and World War II.  The various other armed conflicts in which American military forces have participated were not, according to the Constitution, wars.

I'm not sure when (or if) the United States officially took the trouble to make privateering an illegal activity for its citizens.  But privateering certainly had disappeared by the time the U.S. next got into a war with a foreign power, in 1898.

Schoonerbum's discussion of the Lindberg "Independence War Schooner" is dead on target.  It's a reissue of an extremely old Pyro kit, which was in turn pirated from the wood Model Shipways revenue cutter Roger B. Taney.  It still makes a fine project for beginners - though it certainly shows its age.  Retrofitting it as a War of 1812 vessel would take a bit of work, though.

Many, many years ago, Aurora made a kit called "Privateer Corsair."  The instructions were extremely vague in their explanation of what it was, but it looked a good deal like the famous War of 1812 American privateer Prince de Neufchatel.  It was a pretty little model (about a foot long, if I remember right), with relatively few pieces but reasonably nice detail for its age (the mid-fifties) - certainly a major improvement over its Aurora predecessors, the "Pirate Ship" and "Viking Ship."  I've seen it on e-bay a couple of times.  That kit would be a good basis for a model of a War of 1812 privateer.

    Actually, I think the "Sandpiper " is actually a close resemblance to the Morris class . So why didn`t they issue this kit as the Morris instead of the Sandpiper ????? Will wonders never cease.........

I think that some were used by the Confederates as raiders... not really privateers, I think that privateering had been outlawed in the 1850s.  Civil War prizes were burned rather than condemned or ransomed.

The Union used them as blockaders / patrol craft.

In one instance, a Confederate raiding party attempted to cut out one of the Joe Lane cutters, the Caleb Cushing, from a New England port but was run down and captured.

I'm on the road this week. I'll check details next week.

There was a "war of Independence" schooner (Pyro or Ideal??) kit which could be modified to a War of 1812 privateer. I think it was around 3/16" (1/64th) scale. I think it was actually a (Morris class?) revenue cutter from the Seminole war period.  It has basic Baltimore clipper lines, drag to the keel and a flat transom. Some surgery would still be required but it would make a good representation. Again, I'll have to check when I get home. I have one in my stash in the garage that I picked up a couple of years ago on e-bay. The prior owner had started surgery and botched it. Some day (at this rate, about 2024) I intend on repairing and completing the build as a revenue cutter.

Another option for the 'Sandpiper' might be an opium clipper. The book on the Frolic listed below is an excellent read if you are interested in the Baltimore Clipper.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0804738491/sr=8-16/qid=1156046811/ref=sr_1_16/002-4463306-1309643?ie=UTF8

Annoying news for me Alan Yet I still want to fit my schooner as a privateer. Did any of those captured by confederate forces served as privateers ?

The Sandpiper is an old, old Marx kit which has been reboxed several times under a variety of labels, including a Revolutionary war schooner.

It can be made into a nice little vessel, but it would be a serious anachronism to bill it as a Revolutionary or War of 1812 vessel, without major modifications. The Sandpiper's shallow hull, lack of drag to the keel (greater draft at the stern) and round stern make the hull inappropriate for pre-1830.

The hull lines, round stern and deck furniture match pretty well with the Joe Lane/Jefferson Davis (named after him while he was still a Yankee)  'class' of American Revenue Cutters from the 1850s. The kit scales in at a perfect 1/144 based on the load water line. The deck layout differs, slightly, from the Joe Lane plans, but from my reading it appears that there was quite a bit of variation among the vessels in layout.

Their historic highlights for these vessels include being the first 'law' in San Francisco Bay (Lawrence) and some action in the Civil War (some were siezed and used by the Confederacy).  The plan of the Joe Lane is in Chapelle's 'The History of American Sailing Ships'. (note the raised deck aft and aft cockpit).  

The Sandpiper can also be converted into the modern replica sailing vessels "Californian' (currently at the San Diego Maritime Museum and formerly starring in the title role in "Amistad') or 'Shenandoah' (in Martha's Vinyard)

I built the kit about 15 years ago as a late 19th century luxury yacht (Pirates had nothing over the 'Robber Barons' of the late 19th century... no labor unions, no income tax, no pesky SEC, labor, including children, was expendible and cheap.... Bill Gates eat your heart out) 

Basic conversion is tossing the injection molded sail/mast assemblies, cutting the deck furniture off the overly cambered decks and using it to build up new deck assemblies on Evergreen engraved railroad siding sheets and detailing per taste.

Armament varied greatly, so you can use your imagination, long toms on centerline pivots, carronades or small 3 to 4 pounders.  Rigging also varied (Lawrence was changed from a schooner into a brig for her trip around the Horn to California).

.

 

"Chasseur", puts her at around 1810-1812, a "letter of Marque" schooner. 115'-6" on deck , and therefore 1/168 scale. Howard Chapelle, in "History of American Sailing Ships" states she carried 8- 9 pounder carronades, and six long 12's. He doesn't state how the gun decks were configured. I stand corrected on my assessment of entry and run, as the letter of marque schooners/American privateers seem to exhibit similar lines to the "sandpiper", and were of that era.

I intend to build mine as the Chasseur (beter known as the Pride of Baltimore) complete with a "free trade and sailors' rights" flag

She is supposed to be an 1812 privateer, but you never know. I can't find any reference to "sandpiper", so must assume either it is a fictional name, or a model of some other vessel, repackaged. I would guess, based on a length on deck of 8.25", that she is approximately 1/150 scale.....give or take. I have one of these, being rebuilt into a 1/87 scale 60' coastal schooner, waterline model. I took care of the deck problem, by laying in deck beams, and planking the deck with wood strips. I don't have a lot of knowledge of that era, but "Sandpiper's" sharp entry, and clean run, strike me as a little more modern that 1812. Other than that, she is similar, in many ways, to a revenue cutter/"Baltimore Clipper".

Hello,

This is a superb beginners kit, easy to build without much fitting difficulties. Yes the plank detail on deck is a bit heavy but that can be resolved by sanding the deck a little. Biggest problem is those plastic molded sails but they can be easily removed and replaced with paper ones. I built her twice in the past and I'll soon build another for a third time.

By the way, what is the scale of her ?