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wooden ship models

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  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
wooden ship models
Posted by wyoroy on Sunday, September 24, 2006 9:59 AM
I was thinking about building a wooden ship model.  I was hoping that someone could give me some advice and or tips.

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:48 AM
Model Shipways/ ModelExpo has recently re-released their New York Pilot Boat "Phantom". The kit has a nice set of plans, and a reasonable instruction book. It is a pre-carved wood hull, that needs finish shaping (templates provided), wood for masts, spars, and railings, wood blocks and deadeyes, brass belaying pins, and cast details. It is a 1/96 scale model, and is a good start in wood sailing ship models. While not large, or too complex, this kit will "teach" many of the disciplines of wood shipmodeling, without the tedium of larger ship models. Be ready to ride the sharp edge of the learning curve, and enjoy the process. Whether you are in for the "building", or the finished product, this kit should do the trick.

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, September 24, 2006 11:50 AM

There are, to my knowledge, four manufacturers who produce decent scale ship model kits in wood.  Three are American:  Bluejacket (www.bluejacketinc.com), Model Shipways (distributed by Model Expo, www.modelexpoonline.com), and A.J. Fisher (www.ajfisher.com).  Bluejacket and MS offer solid-hull, plank-on-bulkhead, and plank-on-frame kits (which, generally speaking, ascend in difficulty in that order).  Fisher is an old solid-hull firm that just came under new management after a long period of dormancy.  It only offers a couple of kits so far, but I have the impression that they're of high quality.

The other firm I recommend is a British one, Caldercraft, also known as Jotika.  Its plank-on-bulkhead kits are hard to find in the U.S., and I've never actually seen one in the flesh.  On the basis of reviews and photos, though, I have the clear impression that they're excellent.  They're also extremely expensive.  The Calder H.M.S. Victory, on 1/72 scale, costs over a thousand dollars.

Most of the other wood kits on the market are made in continental Europe, and experienced scale modelers don't take them seriously.  (Examples of the manufacturers in question are Mamoli, Artesania Latina, Corel, Euromodel, and Mantua.)  Those are the kits I call HECEPOBs.  (Hideously Expensive Continental European Plank On Bulkhead.)  There are exceptions, but generally they're characterised by mediocre materials, impractical construction methods, parts recycled from kit to kit, incomprehensible plans, inadequate instructions, and utter disregard for historical reality.  They aren't scale models, and I strongly recommend that scale modelers avoid them like the plague.

There seems to be one partial exception.  An Italian firm called Amati has recently begun a series of British sailing warships under the label "Victory Models."  These are designed by a gentleman who used to be affiliated with Calder, and appear (again, I haven't actually seen one) to be excellent kits. 

For starters, though, I recommend a solid hull kit from either Model Shipways, Bluejacket, or Fisher.  I can second Sumpter's recommendation of the Model Shipways Phantom.  Another good starter kit from MS is the eighteenth-century schooner Sultana. (If you go to the "Group Builds" section of this Forum you'll find a thread in which several beginners tackled that kit - with lots of in-progress photos.  I suspect all those gents would endorse the kit.)  The MS Harriet Lane and Dapper Tom are a bit more elaborate and time-consuming, but probably not beyond the determined beginner who has experience in other forms of model building.

Good starter kits in the Bluejacket line include the Maine fishing sloop Yankee Hero and the New York pilot schooner Mary Taylor.  Both the current A.J. Fisher kits are pilot schooners, and presumably would make good starter projects.

My number one suggestion to anybody getting into this hobby is:  start with a relatively small ship in a relatively large scale - at least 1/8" = 1', and preferably larger.  Too many people want to start with a frigate or a clipper ship.  The learning curve in ship modeling is fairly short, but pretty steep.  The typical beginner who starts with an advanced kit improves rapidly, with the result that after he's been working on the model for six months the stuff he did five months ago no longer looks good to him.  That's one reason why the vast majority of advanced ship model kits that get bought never get finished.  It makes far more sense to start with something that can get finished in three or four months, regarding that time as an investment in the big project that will come later.  Building a Phantom or a Sultana will equip the new modeler with all sorts of skills in woodworking, plans reading, rigging, and virtually every other skill that's relevant to the Constitution or Flying Fish down the road - and, in the process, will give him a mighty handsome model to put on the mantle.

Hope that helps a little.  Good luck.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Bangor, Maine
Posted by alross2 on Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:07 PM

Not all wooden ship model kits are of sailing vessels.  The BlueJacket line, for instance, includes a Liberty and Victory ship, an 80' ELCO PT, GAMBIER BAY (CVE 73), SAMUEL B. ROBERTS (DE 413), KIDD (DD 661), "Red Baron" (a Holland 32), "Portland" (a paddlewheel steamer), "Nantucket" (a lightship), "Lackawanna" (a railroad tug), a 4-stack DD, and a few others.  There was a limited edition MAINE, but it sold out quickly.  I'm currently developing OLYMPIA as a follow-on to MAINE.

If you want to start with a solid hull powered vessel, either the "Red Baron" or the 80' ELCO would be the best choices from this manufacturer. 

Al Ross


 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Sunday, September 24, 2006 9:27 PM
Thanks for all the great advice.  I think that I will go with the Model Expo offer.  Purchase the Phantom by Model Shipways and try to finish it in six months.  If I send photos of the model they will give me a store credit for the purchase price towards a new Model Shipways kit.

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, September 24, 2006 11:52 PM

Dr. Ross's point is, of course, well taken.  In my earlier post I was guilty of a sin that I find irritating in other modelers:  I assumed that the question dealt with my own favorite field of modeling.  Bluejacket is, in fact, one of the few firms around who are keeping the hobby of building steel ship models in wood alive.  I've never built any of the kits in question, but they have a fine reputation.

Another line that I'd urge newcomers to investigate is the one from Midwest.  That company specializes in small craft - sailboats, canoes, a couple of dories, and the like.  The materials in Midwest kits are excellent, and the instruction books are among the best in the business.  (Bluejacket and Model Shipways also make some nice smallcraft kits.)  In the eyes of a knowledgeable enthusiasts, such models have a fascination and beauty of their own.  A Grand Banks dory, for instance, is, in its own way, almost as interesting, attractive, and important a modeling subject as a clipper ship or a frigate - and a model of a dory doesn't take nearly as long.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Monday, September 25, 2006 3:10 PM
I looked at some kits from midwest and I may even try one from them instead of the Phantom.  The price is lower and since this will be my first it may be a better starting point.  Again I want to thank everyone for their great advice. 

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:38 PM

What type of epoxy, wood glue and paints do you recommend for wooden ships?  Last time I built anything (1996) there seemed to be a few choices of glues now there is an endless list of just super glues; type, brands and purpose.  Any recommendations? 

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Bangor, Maine
Posted by alross2 on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:31 PM
 wyoroy wrote:

What type of epoxy, wood glue and paints do you recommend for wooden ships?

I use CA (both thin and medium viscosity, mostly the latter) for just about all of my gluing.  However, when gluing up large blocks, I use regular carpenter's glue (like Titebond or Elmer's). 

I prime with lacquer-based automotive primer-surfacer and paint with either FLOQUIL (matte finishes) or KRYLON "Fusion" (gloss finishes).

Al Ross

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:48 PM

There's certainly room for a fair amount of personal taste here.  For virtually all wood-to-wood joints my favorite is "yellow" glue - either Franklin Titebond or Elmer's "Carpenter's Glue."  They're pretty much the same thing.  For wood-to-metal or wood-to-styrene, I like medium-viscosity CA (e.g., Super-Zap or Hot Stuff Super-T). 

When it comes to paint, I'm a longtime convert to acrylics.  My favorite brand is PolyScale, but I use Testor's Acryl as well (mainly because that's what the local dealer carries).

I should emphasize that my primary interest is in sailing vessels.  If I were working with wood models of modern steel ships, I might well have some different opinions.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:49 PM
The only caveat I have about the Midwest kits, is the use of balsa for the hull "planking". Be very careful of how you clamp the hull pieces while the glue sets, balsa is very soft, and is easily deformed/compressed by a clamp. The hull of the Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack that I built for the store, is considerably "thinner" than it was supposed to be, because of having to sand out the clamp marks. You may also want to replace some of the cotter keys (used for eyebolts), with commercial eyebolts, in areas where the size of the hole needed, compromizes the strength of the spar it's going in. 

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:02 PM

As I understand it, Midwest makes most of its kits of basswood and/or mahogany but does use balsa for some of them - and balsa is one of two materials (the other being lead) that, as far as I'm concerned, are absolute no-nos in scale ship modeling.  (Exception:  folks who build operating boats and ships report that balsa is a good basis for fiberglass cloth, because the resin soaks in so easily.  I think some of the Midwest balsa kits are intended to be sheathed with fiberglass.) 

I refuse to pay good money for manufactured eyebolts.  It's too easy to make them out of brass or copper wire.  A set of drill bits, sized #60 to #80, makes an excellent set of mandrils.  Clamp the drill bit, blunt end up, in a vise.  If the wire is a little stiff, soften it by heating it in a candle flame for a minute.  Loop it around the drill bit, and twist the ends into a pigtail.  You can produce a couple of dozen eyebolts, of any size you want, in fifteen or twenty minutes.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, October 7, 2006 7:17 PM
If you love to build ships, especially wooden, you could always try to build your own from scratch. If or even if your not experienced in building models, the process is very easy. Just got to use your imagination or you could even build from pictures of an actual ship. If you want to know more, send me a message.
  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Saturday, January 13, 2007 8:14 AM

I finally got the kit; it's Model Shipways New York Pilot Boat.  Now it's just a matter of getting started. The only part that I'm concerned with is the final shaping of the hull.  I have read through ‘A guide to building the Model Shipways kit' by Chuck Passaro that pertains to the Phantom.  It sounds easy but then again I have never attempted something like this.  I'm eager to see the finished model.

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Bangor, Maine
Posted by alross2 on Saturday, January 13, 2007 8:53 AM

As the ad for a certain well-known brand of athletic footwear used to declare - ...just do it... Smile [:)].  Solid hulls are very forgiving.  If you didn't take off enough, take off some more; if you take off too much, just slap the filler to it and reshape it.  Just work slowly and check your work with templates often.  PHANTOM builds into a very attractive model and should provide you with hours of creative activity.

Al Ross 

 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:21 AM

That's the plan.  It's good to know that if I have questions are problems have you and others on the forum to ask for help.  My wife already wants me to start and finish this so that I can build her a larger ship to display.  She's from Europe and loves the ships from Napoleon's era.Smile [:)]

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 20, 2007 2:12 PM

I've been building plank-onframe for about 40 years. Harold Hann's plans are good start for those that want to get involved in what I call true modeling. A hull with all it's planking ( I use Harold Underhills method of bamboo tree nails -which of course have to nbe made) should take about 1 year to do. Read Underhills "Plank-on Frame Models"; you will discover that a plank should be no longer than 8" at 1/4" scale - thats 32"-0" for a board. Mind you, England's trees reaching more than 32 feet were scarce that's why they came to the America's for their wood.

That's another story. For the rigging I use "The Masting and Rigging of English Warships from 1640 to 1850"; available from U. S. Naval Institute. The rigging changed every 10 years. It will take a person about a week (unless your a mathematican) to get the spar dimentions and rigging correct. I started of 40 years ago figuring I'll just build a model of a 18th Century ship. The more I got into it the more I wanted the model to be right-so, now I'm a nut whth an extensive collectrion of reference books that must be worth some 4,000 dollars.

Harold Hann -one of the finest model builders in the world has plans and I know of 2 books that are available from him directly. Once you build his way of by copying exact plank-onframe construction you'll never go back to plank on bulkhead. His address can be found in the "Nautical Research Journal" put out by the Nautical Research Guild, Inc. @ nrghomeoffice@verizon.net.

Good luck guys

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