Would like to build a ship

the nassau is not an aircraft carrier like the nimitz class but an amphibious assault ship.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/lha-1.htm

zipmeister wrote:

Hey guys  Would like to build a warship.1/700 & 1/350 pros and cons.Also suggestions on kits please. Thank you Zip

Hello: Jumping on the thread. I have been doing sailing ships in the past and would like to build some modern warships. At the moment I am finishing the u-boat type VII-D from Revell in scale 1:144. The kit shows a lot of details.

Recently I bought me the aircraft carrier USS Nassau from Italeri in scale 1:720. I cannot comment on whether it shows a lot of details but I am a bit dissappointed because there are only few aircrafts and helicopters included.

However, on www.moduni.de one can read kit reviews. All I gathered thus far is the following: people should stay away from Revell warship ship kits because they are most likely not very detailed. People praise Heller over Revell and Tamiya is some kind of state of the art.

There are no Italeri reviews on www.moduni.de and I do not know whether my USS Nassau carrier is good or bad. But is it generaly true that in most of the cases Revell warship kits are not very detailed and one should better buy Heller, Tamiya, etc. kits? Or does it depend on the warship itself and brand names are not a very good indicator of accuracy?

Thanks,
Kater Felix

CapnMac82 wrote:

<SNIP> Oh, and you'll likely want to order the Anthony Preston book "US Navy Destroyers of WWII" (or go and check one out from the local library.  Despite turning out hundreds of Fletchers, they tended to become more unique rather that less.  Or, not so much different than modeling one specific aircraft <g>.  I'd recommend a pre-war paint scheme, too.  Until you decide this ship thing is "for you" adding complexity in the forms of which camo scheme in which year with which color of paint can be a lot of work (or too much time here in the forum tracking down opinion <g> and not enough painting).

The Preston book is a popular press book which covers the topic with a rather broad brush and doesn't go too deep.   There are several other references on the Fletcher class which are more specific.  I can name names if you would like.

Pre-war paint scheme, on the Fletcher?   The Fletcher was launched 03-May-1942 and was commisisoned on 30-June-1942.    Photos which I have seen of the Fletcher around the time of her sea trials (i.e. before commissioning) showed her to be in a dark monotone.    Perhaps Ms 1, 11, or a standard 12.   She also didn't have secondary armament (20s and 1.1-inch), the MK37 director, or radar.   However, she was commissioned in Measure 12R (full sized painting instructions of which are included with the kit instructions)

Later versions of the Fletcher (herself) were in Measure 21 (overall Navy Blue) in 1943, dazzle Measure 31/2c (1944), Measure 21 (again) and Measure 22 (graded) in 1945.   See the camouflage database at shipcamouflage.com   http://www.shipcamouflage.com/fletcher_class.htm  As noted above,  the ships became different with each refit (not really unique as the progression was fairly standard).  For accuracy sake each different paint scheme should have a different weapon and sensor layout.

You want to build a model of the Fletcher as a first ship.   Don't get wrapped around the axle.  Build it out of the box with PE.   The painting instructions are airly easy and straight forward.  Make xerox copies of the camo scheme and use it as a mask.   Your color palette is 20B Deck Blue.  5-N Navy Blue,  5-O Ocean Gray, and 5-H Haze Gray.    See my responses in the thread on painting the Fletcher http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/684958/ShowPost.aspx on methods of making the masks

 

My ship just came in and docked at the main terminal at the airport Nicely detailed from what I have seen

zipmeister wrote:

I am going with the 1/350 Tamiya Fletcher with Gold Medal Models PE set ... I will be ordering this stuff in a couple weeks.

Well, you might want to order two Fletchers.  If the first one suits you, you could then "blend" back to your "roots" and build Radford or one of her two sisters--they originally went to sea with a Kingfisher on a cruiser catapault on the aft end of the midships deckhouse.

The Tamiya Fletcher is a "round bridge" Fletcher, making it a much easier conversion.  It would make for an eye-catching ship, too (and you only have to cope with four, not five 5" turrets <g>).

Oh, and you'll likely want to order the Anthony Preston book "US Navy Destroyers of WWII" (or go and check one out from the local library.  Despite turning out hundreds of Fletchers, they tended to become more unique rather that less.  Or, not so much different than modeling one specific aircraft <g>. 

I'd recommend a pre-war paint scheme, too.  Until you decide this ship thing is "for you" adding complexity in the forms of which camo scheme in which year with which color of paint can be a lot of work (or too much time here in the forum tracking down opinion <g> and not enough painting).

Thanks for the run down Ed. I have read about the seams along the deck in one of he builds. I didn't know it was a re-engineered Revell
Thanks. What do you recommend for  PE sets for this kit?

Hippy-Ed wrote:

Ed, thanks for the heads up on the  AZ, what kind of fit issues are we talkin' about? I've seen a few builds & reviews on this kit. If you'd like, you can email me that info. Eddie

Ed --

The Banner/Trumpeter/MinihobbyModels 1:350 scale USS Arizona is a re-engineer/pantograph of the Revell 1:426 kit of older vintage.   While they fixed some of the old Revell "features", they introduced several new problems.  The kit has multi-piece decks with several obvious cross-deck seams which need to be dealt with.    The 5-inch guns behind the side shutters are represented by cylinders with sticks -- no gun shape is modeled.   There are some spacing issues with the main turrets.  

The Arizona can be fixed and made into a very nice model.  But one of my criteria for recommending a model to a new ship modeler is one that you do not have to fix before you can proceed.

OtherEd

 

zipmeister wrote:

Hey guys, EdGrune thanks for all the info. I am going with the 1/350 Tamiya Fletcher with Gold Medal Models PE set. Ed thanks for the link mostlyclassics thanks for the info on other options. I will be ordering this stuff in a couple weeks. Is there one place I can order both the kit and the PE? Thanks everyone for your help Zip

Let me recommend Pacific Front Hobbies in Roseburg Oregon.   It is a one-man shop run by Bill Gruner.   Bill doesn't respond to emails as fast as many of us would like him to.   Call Bill after 11am pacific time, talk to him to place your order.   He can give you exact stock availability and shipping dates. 

http://www.pacificfront.com/OrderInfo.asp

The Tam Fletcher is listed as in stock

http://www.pacificfront.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_33&sort=3a&page=3

as is the GMM PE

http://www.pacificfront.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=38_91&sort=3a&page=2

There are other online shops which you can order either or both items.    Bill at Pac Front is one of the recommended online ship model shops.

 

This is a photo of the GMM PE from their website

Hey guys,

EdGrune thanks for all the info. I am going with the 1/350 Tamiya Fletcher with Gold Medal Models PE set.

Ed thanks for the link

mostlyclassics thanks for the info on other options.

I will be ordering this stuff in a couple weeks. Is there one place I can order both the kit and the PE?

Thanks everyone for your help

Zip

Zipmeister, if you're coming from armor or aircraft or similar larger-scale subject areas, and you don't mind a) dipping back into Civil War nautical subjects and b) making waterline models, take a look at Verlinden's line of resin 1/200th scale waterline ironclads and U.S.S. Monitor.

They're inexpensive ($20.00 to $35.00 discounted via internet merchants). They have good to exquisite detail and are very close to being shake-the-box weekend projects. You'll spend most of the time filing and sanding off the pour stubs.

They are somewhat bare-bones, since there are no photo-etched parts included (whadaya want for $20.00-$35.00?? ). But there's an excellent fret of PE parts specific to these vessels available for about $20.00. And/or you can roll some of your own parts (cropped fishhooks for davits or long straight-pins for flagpoles, for instance). There's a big box of inexpensive figures available in 1/200th scale from Preiser which can be Shanghaied and adapted into Civil War sailors and naval officers easily enough.

Making a realistic waterline base is fun, easy and inexpensive. I made my first one for less than $15.00, and have enough paint, silicone goo, etc., left over to make two more for much less than that. The picture-frame for holding the base, for instance, is $3.99 at Michael's.

There's about no included documentation, and you're on your own with regard to painting schemes. But that's part of the fun: tracking down the details to make a convincing model.

Overall, these make excellent stepping-stones to the much more intricate 1/350th or 1/700th scale warship kits, be they resin or plastic.

Ed, thanks for the heads up on the  AZ, what kind of fit issues are we talkin' about? I've seen a few builds & reviews on this kit. If you'd like, you can email me that info.

Eddie

Hippy-Ed wrote:

I dunno about the PE sets but, check out http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/ You may find something there. Since yer into a/c why not a USS Arizona... comes with a couple Kingfishers on the cats (I'm waiting on one myself)

The Fletcher kit does not come with photoetch.   There is a small fret of PE in the England kit (depth charge racks and the radar).  They are relatively crude compared to the regular aftermarket manufactures.

White Ensign does not make a PE set for the Fletcher. 

I would recommend either Gold Medal Models or Flagship Models as the PE for a first time ship & PE project.  Eduard also makes a set. I think I'd hold off on them too.    Tom's Modelworks makes a good set, but Tom uses a softer brass which crushes easily under an errant thumb. Wait for more experience for the Toms.

Resist the recommendation about the Arizona.  There are some fit issues with the kit as well as see my recommendations about complexity and parts count.   You want to finish the model to gain confidence about your next build

Write back if you have more questions

I dunno about the PE sets but, check out
http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/
You may find something there. Since yer into a/c why not a USS Arizona... comes with a couple Kingfishers on the cats (I'm waiting on one myself)

Hey Ed,

I was hoping you would see this post and chime in! Ya I kinda been wanting to try a ship for a while. I use to be strickly aircraft. Then I took a trip to the Dark Side ( armor). Well I'm still mainly aircraft but I do like armor alot and now I want to try a ship.I like to have a plane and some armor going at the same time. That way I never have to get board with my builds. I like the air, land and sea idea. I would just like to try one and see if I like it.I was checking out the Tamiya 1/350 Fletcher just before I  posted this. Not a bad price at Mega hobby..

Thanks everyone for all your help, I think I'm going with the Fletcher. Wish me luck and I will probably be posting a lot of questions so please bear with me!

First question: Does any of you know if the Fletcher comes with PE?

Thanks alot Ed 

Zip

 

mfsob wrote:

I'm with Ed on this one - 1/350 for a first ship. Sure, it'll be bigger and cost a little more, but as someone who started out with a 1/700 resin ship as my first effort in more than 30 years ... wish I'd have gone bigger and worked my way down. As for plastic or resin, it's 6-5 and pick 'em. If you're used to plastic, go with a plastic kit. The only real difference with resin is you have to use cyanoacrylate glue (Super glue), but that comes in varieties that don't dry the second you join the parts. As for the rest, treat a ship model like a series of smaller projects that will fall together at the very end to look like a ship - if you don't, you'll go nuts with the feeling that you're not getting anywhere. Welcome aboard!

and I must say  I'm suprised Zip!!

I'm with Ed on this one - 1/350 for a first ship. Sure, it'll be bigger and cost a little more, but as someone who started out with a 1/700 resin ship as my first effort in more than 30 years ... wish I'd have gone bigger and worked my way down.

As for plastic or resin, it's 6-5 and pick 'em. If you're used to plastic, go with a plastic kit. The only real difference with resin is you have to use cyanoacrylate glue (Super glue), but that comes in varieties that don't dry the second you join the parts.

As for the rest, treat a ship model like a series of smaller projects that will fall together at the very end to look like a ship - if you don't, you'll go nuts with the feeling that you're not getting anywhere. Welcome aboard!

1:700

Pro:   Large selection of subjects,  plastic or resin,  a large number may be displayed in a small area

Con:  Parts are small,  most are waterline only (may be a pro or con)

 

1:350

Pro:  Parts are larger & easier to manipulate for a novice.  Most subjects are whole hull,  Plastic or resin

Con: Limited number of plastic kits,  mostly large subjects (Battleships, carriers) with some smaller destroyers & escorts.   Resin kits cover many of the gaps (cruisers) and patrol craft.   Many of the subjects are USN, or RN.   Other countries are not as well represented.   

Note that at first glance resin kits appear to be more expensive than their plastic counterparts.   You need to see what is included in the kit.    Many resin kits contain photoetch which is an extra purchase in plastic.   Most 1:350 kits include PE,  there are some 1:700 manufactures which do not.  

My recommendation for a first ship would be either the Tamiya Fletcher or the Trumpeter England both in 1:350 scale.   Pair them with the Gold Medal Models PE.  

Reasons: 

1)  The parts are larger and easier to manipulate.  If you choose to build a smaller scale later it is easy to transfer your knowledge down in scale.

2)  Both of the kits are well engineered and go together well.  

3)  Both kits are rather small and have a limited number of parts.    Larger subjects such as a BB of CV have numerous parts (avoids the OMG!, what have I gotten into factor).   You can see the end of the project.

4)  Both kits are relatively inexpensive when compared to a BB or CV.   You are comparing 30 dollars plus 30 for the PE with 100 dollars plus 80 for the PE.   Being less expensive also has the benefit of freeing you from worrying that you are going to screw up the big/expensive kit.   The kit gets put away for fear of messing up and you do not learn anything.

5)  The Fletcher has a relatively simple camouflage pattern,  with a full size tamplate included in the instructions.   The England is in a monotone blue camouflage.   You can graduate to fancy dazzle patterns in later projects. 

I cannot recommend the Trumpeter Fletcher, sold as The Sullivans, as a first kit.   It has numerous issues, all of which are correctable with aftermarket,  but you do not need to bite off than much now.

Build the Tam Fletcher or the Trump England.   Don't worry about mistakes.   You will make some.  Learn from them.   Then if you choose to go to a larger project (BB or CV) you have some experience.   If you choose to go to a smaller scale - you have some experience you can fll back on.   If you choose to go to a resin subject you have the experience.   There are some kits and manufacturers which I will recommend to you if you choose to go the resin route.   Do the Fletcher or England first