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News flash for bargain hunters

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  • Member since
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  • From: Greenville, NC
News flash for bargain hunters
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, October 8, 2006 11:50 PM

I was strolling around the video department of the local Wal-Mart the other day when my eye landed on something remarkable:  a reissue on DVD of the grand old TV documentary series Victory at Sea.  What really got my attention was the price.  The twenty-six episodes are spread over four DVDs, each of which costs (drum roll, please) a dollar.

For the benefit of those readers of less-than-curmudgeonly age - Victory at Sea was one of the first (maybe the first) TV documentary series about World War II - or any other subject.  It initially ran in 1952.  It was produced in cooperation with the U.S. Navy; one of the scriptwriters, Henry Saloman, had, as I recall, been a research assistant to Samuel Eliot Morison when the latter was writing his 14-volume History of U.S. Naval Operations in WWII.  One of the show's most famous aspects was the music score, which was composed by Richard Rodgers (Oklahoma!, South Pacific, The King and I, The Sound of Music, etc.) and orchestrated by Robert Russell Bennett (who also orchestrated just about every famous Broadway musical from the thirties through the early sixties).  In the original soundtrack, the score was played by the NBC Symphony Orchestra, which, in 1952, was Arturo Toscanini's orchestra - one of the finest in the world.  These shows, in other words, represented the best the young TV industry had to offer.

By modern standards they are, in some respects, museum pieces.  The film clips are a mixture of genuine action shots, posed ones, and the occasional staged propaganda movie; many of them have been recycled dozens of times in other places.  Much of the information we now take for granted about World War II wasn't available in 1952, and some of the narration (by a gentleman named Leonard Graves, who I fear I haven't heard of in any other context) is pretty corny by modern standards.  On the other hand, it's worth remembering that in 1952 there was no such thing as a cliche in a TV documentary. 

Maybe the weakest parts of the series are the episodes in which it tries to narrate specific battles, using "stock footage" to fill in the many gaps when actual shots of that particular battle just aren't available.  (Enthusiasts will spot, for instance, a Seafire landing on a British carrier in the midst of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, and a square-bridged Fletcher-class destroyer supposedly chasing a U-boat in 1941.)  The best ones, to my taste, are the more generalized sequences about such topics as the Battle of the Atlantic and the American submarine campaign against Japan, when the editors put together a series of generically-relevant shots, the narrator shuts up, and Mr. Rodgers's wonderful music takes over.  Ken Burns, eat your heart out.

Somewhere or other I read a quote from a TV critic to the effect that "every American ought to watch Victory at Sea once a year, and members of Congress ought to watch it twice."  I'll add that anybody interested in naval history ought to seize the opportunity to grab it for four dollars.  Our local Wal-Mart only had the first two volumes; I'll be on the lookout for the others.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
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  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Monday, October 9, 2006 5:35 AM
If you can't find all of the volumes in the .99 bin, check the 2 for $10 bin in the video section.  I found the complete box set there.

Scott

  • Member since
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  • From: Tampa, Florida, USA
Posted by steves on Monday, October 9, 2006 12:06 PM
 jtilley wrote:

What really got my attention was the price.  The twenty-six episodes are spread over four DVDs, each of which costs (drum roll, please) a dollar.

Victory at Sea was an important part of my youth.  I loved the show and never missed an opportunity to sit down in front of the TV and watch an episode.  Back in the 1960's I think I plunked down $5-probably $15-$20 in today's currency-for the RCA vinyl LP of the Victory at Sea soundtrack (great modeling music for modern warships).   Fifteen or so years ago I gladly paid around $75 for the entire series on six VHS cassettes, and last year paid a bit more than $4, but not much, for a three DVD set of the series.   An interesting progression of product technology and price.

 

 jtilley wrote:

Maybe the weakest parts of the series are the episodes in which it tries to narrate specific battles, using "stock footage" to fill in the many gaps when actual shots of that particular battle just aren't available.  (Enthusiasts will spot, for instance, a Seafire landing on a British carrier in the midst of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, and a square-bridged Fletcher-class destroyer supposedly chasing a U-boat in 1941.) 

Enthusiasts will also spot Pearl Harbor being bombed by SBD Dauntlesses with hinomarus painted on them.   Unfortunately these same types of film footage misuse are all too prevelent today in more modern documentaries on the History Channel and others.   Much of this could be easily avoided if the producers of these shows really cared to do so, but apparently they don't.

 

 jtilley wrote:

Somewhere or other I read a quote from a TV critic to the effect that "every American ought to watch Victory at Sea once a year, and members of Congress ought to watch it twice."  

For those with limited attention spans NBC condensed the original series into a two-hour movie sometime back in the 1960's, I believe.   Since Leonard Graves had passed away this was narrated (very ably) by Alexander Scourby.   I recorded it from TV sometime back, but I don't know if it has ever been released on VHS or DVD.

Steve Sobieralski, Tampa Bay Ship Model Society

  • Member since
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  • From: PDX, OR
Posted by Umi_Ryuzuki on Monday, October 9, 2006 1:23 PM

I have seen many of the Victory at Sea shorts, but I do not recall seeing some of the footage featured here...(video link, not for the modem people)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5b4-iIp3pQ

I know the music comes from Ghost in the Shell movie "Innocence".

Does the footage come from the Victory at Sea reels?

Nyow / =^o^= Other Models and Miniatures http://mysite.verizon.net/res1tf1s/
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 9, 2006 2:14 PM

Nice of you to point this out.  I saw the same at Walmart a few days ago,  but didn't post here about it... Thanks!

 It's funny becouse as a kid,  I used to search the TV listings like mad,  just wanting to see when it would be played on PBS again.  Great series,  although as a kid the propoganda angle did escape me.  Unfortunately,  it does stick out like a sore thumb to my adult ears.  I guess if you have to stomach propoganda,  it's better to listen to the Allied versus the Axis,  right? LOLShock [:O]

  • Member since
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  • From: USA
Posted by cruichin on Monday, October 9, 2006 2:53 PM

I have fond memories of the series as a child. My dad, a Navy vet, watched every episode with us kids at his side. I think the series was one of the reasons I became so interested in military history.

I picked up the boxed set a few years ago for $90. It had a silly narration by Peter Graves (I assume no relation to Leonard), setting the stage for each episode.

My favorite episodes were, first, the Med Mosaic with the Royal Navy, focused on the KGV. They have a great five second shot of Nelson and Rodney rolling in parallel in a heavy sea; second, the final episode when all the boys came home.

The narration was well written, if a little soppy. Best poetry was Walt Whitman in the final episode, Song for all Seas, All Ships.

"Flaunt out O sea your separate flags of nations!
Flaunt out visible as ever the various ship-signals!
But do you reserve especially for yourself and for the soul of man
one flag above all the rest,
A spiritual woven signal for all nations, emblem of man elate above
death,
Token of all brave captains and all intrepid sailors and mates,
And all that went down doing their duty,
Reminiscent of them, twined from all intrepid captains young or old,
A pennant universal, subtly waving all time, o'er all brave sailors,
All seas, all ships."

Sorry for being so wordy!

 

Steve

  • Member since
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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, October 9, 2006 8:07 PM

My memories of Victory at Sea don't quite go back to the beginning; I was two years old when the series premiered.  But I can't remember a time when we didn't have at least vol. 1 of the LP records of the Rodgers score in the house.  By the time I was out of junior high school (which is what we called middle school in those days), I'd played that one and vol. 2, which I talked my parents into buying, so often they were literally worn out.  I sure was happy when they turned up on CD.

I believe the series originally ran at 5:00 on Sunday afternoons.  It was said that if the Commies ever wanted to launch an invasion of the U.S., that was the time to do it, because everybody in the Pentagon was glued to a TV set.

I also remember the shortened, Alexander Scourby version.  It think it was available on video, at least for a while; I think I saw it mentioned in one of those fat, paperback TV Movie guidebooks a few years ago.  I have no idea whether it's still obtainable or not.  Personally, I liked Mr. Scourby's narration a little better - especially his rendition of the Whitman poem that cruichin cited above.  Mr. Graves's reading of it strikes me as overly-melodramatic; Mr. Scourby's gave me goosebumps.

Incidentally, anybody who likes that poem, and is interested in musical settings of it, should check out the Symphony No. 1 ("A Sea Symphony," ) by the twentieth-century British composer Ralph Vaughan Williams.  The first movement is a setting of the whole poem for soprano, baritone, chorus, and orchestra.  Powerful stuff.  The first few bars will put any set of speakers to a pretty heroic test.

Another old documentary series I'd like to see resurface is Churchill:  The Valiant Years.  It came along, I think, just a few years after Victory at Sea.  (About twenty years ago the A&E cable network ran the two series back-to-back.  I taped all of them - with the commercials deleted - but I suspect the tapes aren't much good any more.)  That one was narrated by Gary Merrill (known to war movie buffs as Col. Davenport in the movie version of "Twelve O'Clock High"), with the words of Churchill spoken by Richard Burton.  The music was by Richard Rodgers.

Sheesh, TV was fun in those days.  I'm a big fan of many of the documentaries on the History Channel and PBS (especially "The Color of War"), but I don't think any of them will ever top Victory at Sea.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:22 AM

I can put partial blame for my naval service and subsequent navy civilian career on that series. For better or worse.

The BBC's "The World at War" series was another good one: Sir Lawrence Olivier's narration was magnificent.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
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Posted by thunder1 on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:29 AM

Holy Nostalgia Batman!

When my contemparies were purchasing the latest Chubby Checker records in the early 60's(33 1/3, remember them?) I ordered from a Columbia(?) record club the first record volume of Victory at Sea. Yes, Sunday nights were the time to view the episodes and the music was just, well, I still get goose bumps when I hear the opening strains of the show's theme music...when I was a seaman duece on flying bridge lookout, I would hum to myself the different pieces of music from the first album to pass the boredom of the  watch. During the transit to GITMO our CO(a North Atlantic escort veteren of WWII) had us watch Victory at Sea films in the afternoon in lieu of departmental training. It was to get the crew "pumped up" for our two month stay in Cuba. At my retirement ceremony I requsted "Guadalcanel March" from the VAS album as a background music to my farewell inspection of the troops along with the Captain. Most of the folks(air station zoomies and roterheads) didn't get it, but the music sounded great. And yes, I have the series on tape.

   Is it me or did stereo recordings sound better than todays CD's, every cut of the  album sounds like you're in a concert hall, CD's just don't seem to deliver the quality of stereo. Or maybe my ear drums are shot, too much Led Zepplin cranked to "13"....

Say Dr. Tilley, remember this..."take her down, take her down, to the deep blue green beneath the ocean"...The Silent Service's theme song... you are correct TV was a LOT of fun in those days, very magical to a youngster. Current TV offerings are truly "a Vast Wasteland" or as the BOSS sang..."57 channels and nothin's on"....

Regards

Mike M.

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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:02 AM

I do - just barely - remember The Silent Service - and another one called Navy Log.  I caught a couple of episodes of the latter just a few years ago on a TV in a motel room in Tidewater Virginia.  Some local cable company was running it.

Then there was CBS's early entry, Air Power, with terrific music by Norman Dello Joio and narration by (I think) Walter Cronkite. 

I wonder if The World at War has come out on bargain-priced DVD yet.  If so, I just may buy it.  It was indeed an outstanding series in every respect.  One of my colleagues used to teach an entire course, which he called "World War II on Film," with the VHS version of that series as its basis.  I especially liked the BBC's willingness to use both color and black-and-white shots, without worrying about segueing between them.

Nor did the high-quality documentaries stop with historical subjects.  Marlin Perkins's "Wild Kingdom" had a lot to do with getting my older brother interested in anmals.  (He's now a professor of zoology.)  And classical music enthusiasts find it hard to believe that it was once possible to watch Leonard Bernstein on network TV once a week.

In waxing nostalgic about old TV shows we should of course remember that TV in the fifties carried more than its share of garbage.  I heard somewhere that television signals don't stop; that they travel infinite distances through and beyond the earth's atmosphere.  Somewhere out there, presumably, an advanced race of beings is watching "Leave It to Beaver," "Uncle Miltie," "The Lone Ranger," and the Roller Derby - to say nothing of "Brylcream:  A lttle dab'll do ya," "See the world today in your Chevrolet," "Winston tastes good like a (snap snap) cigarette should," etc., etc.  If that's how those folks are studying twentieth-century earth civilization, we may be in deep trouble.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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  • From: vernon hills illinois
Posted by sumpter250 on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:45 AM
My brother and I would be in front of the TV well before Victory at Sea started, every week! I still remember watching, and when it was done, going out in the back yard and "flying" bomb runs with my Strombecker B29. I have cable now, the Learning channel, the Discovery channel, the History channel, the Travel channel, and PBS. Still, I have fond memories of "you are there", and "What in the world". As to the commercials? I would rather have the old ones, than the current "attorneys", "pharmaciuticals", "feminine hygene", and "politics". The local classical music station WFMT, occasionally plays excerpts from the "Victory at Sea" suite. As The Song of the High Seas quiets down I still expect to hear "the voice" say,  "And now......"

Lead me not into temptation ..................I can find it myself

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  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 1:30 PM
Prof. Tilley, "The World at War" is available in a nice boxed set at, what I think, is a reasonable price for a 26 hour series. I believe I paid $30 for it about 2 two years ago. I never get tired of it.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

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Posted by dnatech on Friday, October 13, 2006 12:11 AM

My Walmart had the Victory at Sea disks all in one box for $5.50. All 26 episodes on 3 DVDs. I picked up a copy for myself and my dad. Not a bad deal considering I spent like $80 to get my dad the whole set on VHS about 10 years ago.

Steve

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  • From: Central USA
Posted by qmiester on Saturday, October 14, 2006 9:58 PM
I remember reading somewhere that when he was origionally approached by NBC to do the score for VAS, Richard Rogers wasn't the least bit interested in doing it.  NBC got him to sit down and view some of the footage they had prepared for the initial shows.  No music, no sound, just black and white motion pictures of people fighting all phases of a war.  Apparently he became enthralled by what he saw and agreed to score the series on the spot.

Dr. Tilley,
In the episode on sub hunting in the South Atlantic, Rogers wrote a score which he later used in a musical as "No Other Love Have I".  Do you happen to know what that musical was?  I used to know but just can't remember it anymore.  (As you grow older, the second thing you lose is your memory - and I can't remember what the first thing is)

Quincy
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Posted by Gerarddm on Sunday, October 15, 2006 12:16 PM
For me, there is no more iconic memory of Victory at Sea than the crashing chords of Roger's main theme over footage of a line of American BBs plowing straight ahead into the camera. As a kid I had the fancy that if Hitler and Tojo had seen that footage they'd have given up early. It was... implacable.
Gerard> WA State Current: 1/700 What-If Railgun Battlecruiser 1/700 Admiralty COURAGEOUS battlecruiser
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  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, October 15, 2006 9:32 PM

I believe "No Other Love" appeared in a musical called "Me and Juliet" - one of Rodgers' and Hammerstein's lesser productions.  I think the plot concerned a backstage romance during a production of Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet."

In addition to the more dramatic footage/music combinations, Victory at Sea had its moments of rather startling juxtaposition.  By the time I was old enough to appreciate such things, the TV series wasn't running on TV any more - but in our house the LP records were standard fare.  I can remember when I was in elementary and junior high school listening to those records over and over again and imagining the scenes the music must have accompanied.  I always assumed that "Guadalcanal March," for instance, must have been designed to accompany a shot of marching Marines.  (My father, a Navy vet, said it reminded him of the captain coming down the ladder from the bridge for an inspection.)Then, sometime in the mid-sixties, one of the local TV stations reran the series on Sunday afternoons, and I watched every episode.  It was mind-blowing to hear "Guadalcanal March" as the accompaniment to a camera panning along an endless row of packing cases on shelves in a warehouse on newly-reoccupied Guam.

I'd be interested to hear what modern documentary makers, of the Ken Burns generation, think of Victory at Sea.  My guess is that they revere it.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

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  • From: Stockton,Ca
Posted by Hippy-Ed on Monday, October 16, 2006 7:15 AM
The Militarybookclub.com  offers the VAS dvds. Just got the advertisement/catalong not too long ago amd they have other dvds as well. Might try and order a set as I grew up watching VAS, Combat with Vic Morrow,etc.
If you lose your sense of humor, you've lost everything
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:38 PM

You can also order directly from Wal-Mart online for their discounted price of $5.45 (US) plus 97c shipping.  I just did.

See link: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4339543

 

Andrew

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  • From: Wilmette, IL
Posted by mostlyclassics on Thursday, October 19, 2006 10:50 PM
Thanks, Andrew, for the link! Just placed my order. The 97 cents shipping charge is less than I would spend in gas getting to my nearest Wal-Mart.
  • Member since
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  • From: Nashotah, WI
Posted by Glamdring on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:23 PM
Per all your suggestions, I picked up Victory at Sea today. Now I can't wait until the weekend.....

Robert 

"I can't get ahead no matter how hard I try, I'm gettin' really good at barely gettin' by"

  • Member since
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  • From: W. Chicago,Il.
Posted by Steve H. on Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:59 PM

HI

I too watched "V @ S" in the 50's and 60's, I watched it so much I even memorized the script of each episode. I also watched the British equivilent of 2 similar series, "World at War" and I forgot the title of the other one,{hey, , I'm 57 now that WAS a LONG time ago}. But the music of "V @ S" really sunk into me. In the early 1970's an organist named Dennis James recorded the soundtrack version of the orchestral music on a "Mighty Wurlitzer" theatre pipe organ, is sounded GREAT! I play the organ myself{not professionally}, and I have a copy of "No Other Love" that I play as "Under the Southern Cross"{as a waltz just as presented in the movie} and as "the Guadalcanal March". My one attempt to relive that beautiful music score.

Steve H.

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  • From: Tampa, Florida, USA
Posted by steves on Friday, October 27, 2006 7:38 AM
Steve H, I took organ lessons as a kid (should read "my parents made me take organ lessons as a kid") and I remember actually having the sheet music for most of Victory at Sea.  I know it had the main theme (Song of the High Seas I think its called) as well as the "German submarine music", Guadalcanal March and Beneath the Southern Cross.   There may have been more, I can't remember (common problem these days), but it was available and may still be.   Unfortunately, it wasn't enough to keep me interested in continuing the lessons. 

Steve Sobieralski, Tampa Bay Ship Model Society

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