Heller La Reale

I planned on the La Reale being my project, but since i bought the Soliel Royal for my wife..well need i say more. I've always been one to finish one project before the next, so i'll be following your progress.

Michael

Yeah. well ok. The photos and the thread have sort of given me an excuse to order the Heller La Reale so I have ordered it in Holland.This will add to my stash and fill the sauna (thats where I hide new models from my better half) to bursting. Now just finish  the Snowberry and Kearsarge and 1/16th Trump T34   and ...........................................................................................................................................................

Julian

 

Awesome information on the Reale.  I clear coated the hull last night, and will be painting the guilding tonight.  This model takes paint really well and the lines are incredible.  The hull had not one single warp and sanded easily, going together without a hitch.  I'd love to build this in tandem with someone else here on the forum if anyone wants to get theirs started. 

I haven't really decided on fabrics yet.  I want the sail material to be thin, but not so thin that it's see-through.  I may use the kit sails as molds and "super-starch" the cloth sails as if in full wind.  I haven't really decided yet.  As for the canopy, I'm not really concerned with the thickness of the material, but I want the red color to be nice and rich.  It can't have a very "furry" surface, since I will be using a stencil to airbrush the french lilies on the top, as well as the gold work on the hanging fabric.

But all in all this is a very exciting build.  Thanks for the info on the oars.  I haven't checked, but I'm going to see if the points for hooking the oars in raised position are on the model.  If not, I might go ahead and attempt to make them.  I'm still an OOB (out of box) builder at heart, but my skills are growing and I may do some fabrication on this kit.

Next question.  The kit makes no provisions for lashing down the launches.  One is on a rack of some kind, while the other is just sitting on the gangway.  Any suggestions or observations?

Grymm

 Landstrom's "Sailing Ships", has four pages of drawings, and text on La Re'ale. It is a small book, and I'd almost completely forgotten I had it. The era that draws my greatest attention is covered only briefly at the end. It was a gift, and not something I had sought, so I never really spent a lot of time with this book. The drawings, and text are well worth the effort to aquire this, and "The Ship".

Grymm wrote:

Here's a question.  Last night, as I was staring at the hull, having just masked off the waterline, I realized I had a decision to make.  Oars, or no oars?  If she was full sail, then the oars were stowed, only coming out for specific situations.  So my question is, if I go with full sail, how were the oars stowed?  They seem rather large and ungainly out of the water.

Several things you need to know about a Galley under sail:

1.  The oars would remain in their normal positions when the galley is under sail, except they would raised clear of the waves at about 20 degrees above horizontal.   The oars are NOT withdrawn inboard when under sail.   The inboard ends of the loom would be touching the deck, secured to iron stanchions fitted for the purpose.     From the back, the oars would look like a roll of pikes from an Macedonian phalanx stabbing out of the side of the galley at a slightly upward angle.

2.  Modern calculations show that, dispite the fact that galleys are fitted with lanteen sails, which in and of themselves would suggest excellent ability to work to the windward, galleys actually can not either sail close haulled (wind coming from considerably ahead of the beam) or tack.   They can only sail in a beam reach (wind coming from directly abeam) if the wind is light (Beufort scale 4) and water calm because their range of stable roll is only 10 degrees.    They can only sail reasonably well when the wind is coming from the quarter.   They can only sail really well when running directly before the wind.    As a result, at the best point of sailing with the wind coming from astern, a Galley's sails would be deployed in "goose wing" formation, quite unlike the formation depicted on heller's box art.   It is probably somewhat rare for galley to actually sail with both Lanteen sails arrnaged fore-and-aft as depicted on the box art, which would only happen when the galley is sailing on a beam reach.

3. When goose winged, the big lanteen yards (The slanted yard arms on the upper side of the sails) on both masts would be swivled out until they are 90 degrees from the ship's long axis.   The lanteen sails would now be deployed from side-to-side some what like a square sail.  However, triangle sails in this configuration would be larger on one side of the ship than the other, and would tend to create an axis of thrust offset from the ship's long axis, and thus forcing the helmsmen to give some rudder input to keep the ship on a straight course.  To balance the axis of the thrust and minimize helm input needed to keep the galley going straight,  the yard arm on the foremast would be swivled to the opposite beam compared with the yard arms of the main mast.   So when viewed from astern, one triangular sail would be pointed to the starboard side, and the other pointed to the port, looking to some observers like an spreading pair of goose wings.

Thanks for this info on the La Reale De France, I found this model kit in a hobby shop a few years ago which most likley was sitting on the wall for years accounting for all the spider webs it had around it with a price tag of $ 40.00, I bought it not realizing this could be quite a project, I blame it on the great painting on the box....well thanks to Grymm and his post I now have a starting point to tackel this beast, what type of material could be used for the sails ? and what type of red material can be used for the deck covering? damm I love this web site....so much informantion so many models, so little time, now to decide which ship to start building mmmm.  Karl

Here's a question.  Last night, as I was staring at the hull, having just masked off the waterline, I realized I had a decision to make.  Oars, or no oars?  If she was full sail, then the oars were stowed, only coming out for specific situations.  So my question is, if I go with full sail, how were the oars stowed?  They seem rather large and ungainly out of the water.

Anybody have a little knowledge on the subject? 

And yes JTilley, I have added "The Ship" to my xmas list.  That makes a total of 9 books so far that should be under the tree for me...sailing-history heaven...

Grymm

I just checked the "Used and out-of-print" section of the Barnes and Noble website.  That's where I do most of my used book shopping.  I've never had any complaint with its service, or with the accuracy of the descriptions.  Personally, I generally collect books not because of their antiquarian interest (first editions, special bindings, autographs, etc.) but because of  their content.  As long as the thing isn't severely marked up, or falling apart, I don't care much about its condition as a collector might define it; "ex-library copies," for instance, suit me just fine.  (Sometimes such things are rather interesting.  I have one that was discarded from the libary on a USAF base in Greenland.) 

I was pleasantly surprised to find quite a few copies of Landstrom's The Ship at very reasonable prices (i.e., less than $20.00).  Here's the link:  http://search.barnesandnoble.com/used/TitleResults.asp?z=y&SAT=1&STAGE=csTitleResults&CNT=Bjorn%20Landstrom

The book appears on the list under several slightly different titles - including one copy of the original Swedish version and one of a German translation.  It's worth the trouble to scroll through the whole list and find the best combination of condition and price.  The prices on that site vary so much that they're sometimes downright funny.  A fancy bookstore in Chicago or London may want $200 for the same book, in identical condition, that somebody in Nebraska is willing to sell for $10.00.

Everything Landstrom wrote (and illustrated) is worth reading.  His study of ancient Egyptian shipbuilding, as I understand it, is still regarded as the standard general work on the subject.  I think the one called Sailing Ships is, in effect, an abridged version of the first part of The Ship.  Used copies of the smaller book are available for as little as $1.99.  I don't know whether it contains all the drawings of La Reale or not.

My suggestion to anybody breaking into the hobby of sailing ship models is to grab one of those used copies of The Ship while the grabbing's good.  I can't imagine a better - or more economical - start to a private library on the history of nautical technology.

I have the Dutch translation of Landstrom's book (Het Schip) and as you state the drawings of La Reale are beautiful. The photo's placed above are interesting and I remember reading an article by someone (dreadful, forgot their name) who told exactly what he had modified to get a better result. I think I can already guess what I'll buy myself for Christmas this year

Julian

See if you can find a copy of a book called The Ship, by Bjorn Landstrom.  It's an old classic from the late fifties or early sixties - an excellent "starter" book for anyone just getting interested in the subject.  As I understand it, it is unfortunately out of print at the moment, but used copies are pretty common on the web - and it's the sort of book that public libraries frequently have.  If all else fails, it should be possible to get a copy through inter-library loan.  Anybody who considers himself a ship lover needs to have that book - or at least borrow it long enough to read and admire it.  I'm afraid my copy is rather beat up, having been a Christmas present from my father when I was twelve.

Landstrom was an amazing man - a thoroughly competent historian, a playwright, an archaeologist, and a wonderful artist.  The book covers the entire history of the ship, from the log raft to the nuclear aircraft carrier.  To present such a huge subject between two covers obviously demanded that some specific topics got more attention than others.  If I remember correctly, the book doesn't mention the Soleil Royal.  But it does include a nice pen-and-ink perspective drawing and full-color sail plan of H.M.S. Victory.  And among its highlights are several outstanding drawings and paintings of La Reale.   I haven't looked a the book for some time , but if I remember correctly there's just about enough information in those pictures to make the Heller kit into a serious scale model.  It doesn't require much in the way of corrections.  It's a far, far superior kit to the Soleil Royal.  It's pretty obvious that, this time, the designers were working from a genuine set of plans - probably the set published by the Musee de la Marine in Paris.

I found these pics while surfing one evening.  I don't know who the builder is, and maybe someone here does know, but the build is fantastic and I hope mine is at least half as good.  My wife is going to try and make the sails for me.  But these pics show just how great this kit is.  The builder has made extensive modifications to the oars, the launches, and the canopy and sails are all cloth, which I'm going to attempt to do also. 

 

 

I'll post pics as my build progresses...

I'll see what I can do.  I got the hull halves together, along with the bow and stern piece, but that's it.  Did some filling, sanding, and got it primed.  It looks pretty good. 

I got all my homework out of the way today so I could make sure I had free time this weekend.  I'll be assembling and painting the masts and yards on the Soleil Royal, but that's about it since I'm waiting on the Anderson book for rigging help.  So the rest of the time will be spent with the hull of the Reale, masking off the lower hull so I can get the basic paint down.  I'll probably go ahead and paint all the ribs (lots of red to paint, so get it out of the way), and take a look at how hard the guilding and sculptures are going to be.  The detail on the kit is fantastic.  I'll get some pics when I can.

But, I tell you what, I've got some pictures I found on the web of someone else who built the kit.  It's downright beautiful and has been modified quite a bit.  Let me get those uploaded and I'll post them here so people can see what I'm talking about if they're not familiar with the kit.  Let me tell you, if you can get one, get it.  You won't be sorry.  I got lucky and was able to get mine for about 50 bucks.

Grymm

G'd day Grymm,

I have been wondering about La Reale for quite a long time and never got round to buying it. If you could sort of take a few photos, nudge nudge, wink wink .......................Would rather appreciate it.

Cheers,

Julian